Do Utility And Stores Make Too Much?

cavalier

Veteran
Aug 28, 2002
2,409
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www.usaviation.com
I remember talking to a cleaner friend who has since moved on with a voluntary furlough. He held a college degree but worked at U as a cleaner because he told me it was zero stress and the money was equal or even better than what his degree would get him on the outside.

These policies were in place long before I came to U as a mechanic. Since then they have eliminated most of the cleaners and still have the remainders in their sights. Stores is the same deal. So what are we to do, sell our brothers and sisters down the drain like some posters on here would suggest? These people who work in utility and stores have families debt and medical bills like all the rest of us, so why should they be sacrificed to this management team of Gods?

I have worked in both union and non union environments and can say without any reservations that the union environment beats the crap out of the non union where instead of the supposedly competent worker ruling like the right wing extremist like to say, what really rules is how big an a-z-z you can kiss. I know, been there done that. Since I was never good at kissing hind end I do better in a union environment by far.

Creating dissension among the workers would only assure destruction, and selling out the cleaners and store personnel would cause this dissension.

This is why the BOD gets new people in that have zero emotional ties to this franchise and will do their will with no mercy moving on with millions in their pockets after the massacre.

These are just some of the reasons I refuse to give in, to let this disease spread to where all working class Americans are at the will of greedy corrupt deceitful corporate America. If making a stand causes U to cease to exist, so be it, then I will move on knowing I personally did nothing to further the destruction of the working middle class of this country. I have worked in sweat shops and can get along with the devil, but that sure in the hell doesn't mean I like it. Giving into this management team’s asinine requests will be no different than going back to those God forsaken sweat shops, so making a stand makes no difference to me and I am NOT alone like so many of you delusional posters say I am.

The purpose of this topic was to explain once and for all to people like the captain and others that your please accept more concession rants are a waste of time and energy, whether you choose to believe it or not. I am one of MANY employees who feel exactly the same way and are ready for the end to be finally come.
 
cavalier said:
I remember talking to a cleaner friend who has since moved on with a voluntary furlough. He held a college degree but worked at U as a cleaner because he told me it was zero stress and the money was equal or even better than what his degree would get him on the outside.

. . . These people who work in utility and stores have families debt and medical bills like all the rest of us, so why should they be sacrificed to this management team of Gods?

I have worked in both union and non union environments and can say without any reservations that the union environment beats the crap out of the non union. . .
Quite an impressive tirade. So your cleaner friend picked the relatvely no stress, brainless job of a cleaner (no offense intended) to a job that requires use of his education and a degree of responsibility. So life is a trade off, but he has to be willing to take the down side of no stress, no skills job. That ihe can easily be replaced by other low-skilled workers ready to do the job for far less money. Yes, I would say some people want to work under the unions protection, protection from being fired, and some would say to take advantage of this protection. With the union, pay rate is tied to seniority not to job performance. Of course many would like to work under these conditions, it is an easier way to live.
 
Well, I sure hope all you brave chest-thumpers don't shop at Walmart, only drive 100%American-sourced cars (don't believe this item exists) you can't watch television anymore since those are made overseas too, you re-sole all your shoes etc etc etc.

Oh yeah, and buy all your airplane tickets at market cost for the past twenty years.


Good Luck!
 
4merresrat said:
Quite an impressive tirade. So your cleaner friend picked the relatvely no stress, brainless job of a cleaner (no offense intended) to a job that requires use of his education and a degree of responsibility.
Brainless?

Doing an FAA mandated security check is brainless?

Cleaning up biohazards is brainless?

Cleaing up hazmat is brainless?

Getting stuck by a syringe is brainless?

Crawling into a wing fuel tank to clean it is brainless?

Crawling into a hellhole to clean up skydrol is brainless?

Hanging 100 feet from the hangar ceileing buffing the crown of a 767 or A330 is brainless?

I believe you need to walk in someone's shoes and do thier job before you can mindlessly criticize it.
 
4merresrat said:
Quite an impressive tirade. So your cleaner friend picked the relatvely no stress, brainless job of a cleaner (no offense intended) to a job that requires use of his education and a degree of responsibility. So life is a trade off, but he has to be willing to take the down side of no stress, no skills job. That ihe can easily be replaced by other low-skilled workers ready to do the job for far less money. Yes, I would say some people want to work under the unions protection, protection from being fired, and some would say to take advantage of this protection. With the union, pay rate is tied to seniority not to job performance. Of course many would like to work under these conditions, it is an easier way to live.
Attitude is everything and your attitude shines through like a powerful blinding beacon.


We live in an imperfect world where checks and balances are needed unless we want to revisit tyranny. I never said unions were perfect, but working for a business unless one is lucky enough to work for one owned by moral and GOD fearing people, then unions are indeed very necessary.

I speak from real life experience having been on both sides of the fence. I can tell you horror stories. I have also worked in non union environments where it was a pleasure to be, but they unfortunately are far and few between, and even they sometimes turn to the dark side the minute the economy turns sour and they keep the inept nephew over the very competent worker who is not related or owed a favor.

Checks and balances are what is needed, even our founding fathers realized this with the way they built the government, and when those checks and balances are messed with, then the bad stuff starts to happen. Look at U WITH unions, now imagine the actions they would have taken left unrestrained.
 
Please explain the onerus work rules.

Last time I looked at the contract the company has to agree to what is in it also and since 1992 we have given back more to the company then has been given to us.

And the NMB governs the RLA not the NLRB.

Every contract for the past 12 years has had concessions in Bob.
 
PineyBob said:
Or consider that had the company not been saddled with onerous work rules it might never have sunk to the level it has today.

Perhaps more enlightened policies would have been implemented if not for unions? Employee Involvement teams involved in the Total Quality Management concept have in certain cases been deemed by various courts as interfering with a CBA. IIRC the NLRB made such a ruling. I know the airlines are covered by RLA, that's not the point. It's more a philospohical issue to me.

Like I said in another post there is plenty of blame to go around.
You always shine the light on the unions AFTER you held your secret meeting with management, still pointing out subtle management flaws so you don't look so damn obvious, guess what, it's not working because you’re very obvious.

Let’s mention all the millionaires made with only a couple years service.

How about all the fubar's pulled by NON union members that put this place right where it's at, in a straight jacket.

Management made the rules, agree to the rules asked of by the unions.

The blame is far outweighed by all the different inept management decisions made over the years!

It's not that the unions didn't try and help out, look what they gave already, a RECORD give back and it did absolutely NOTHING. And I am sure it will do absolutely nothing if there is even a third round.
 
I'm not picking on you Piney Bob, but just making an observation in general...

"Work rules" have become something of a buzz phrase. From those in the industry to reporters to industry analysts, anytime labor costs are involved, the mention of "work rules" usually follows.

I'd be willing to make a small bet that most analysts, and all reporters who talk about work rules couldn't quote more than one or two "work rules" from any employee groups contract.

Jim
 
Piney,

Like I said, I wasn't picking on you. I purposely excluded interested "outsiders" who participate in forums like this from my bet because folks like you do get some exposure to the inner workings of an airline.

Jim
 
Jim, as usual, you are correct.

I put money up some months ago as a reward for someone to show me any class II station that scheduled cross-utilization. Cross-ute is prescribed by the IAM and CWA contracts. All the dead presidents are still in my pocket.

PB,

IAM fleet and CWA are on their initial contracts, and mostly, all they are is the pre-contract, company personnel policy booklet with a union decal on the cover. You know I don't lie.

It's not the pay. It's not the benefits. It's the business plan.

Just in case y'all missed it

/index.php?showtopic=12132
 
4merresrat said:
Quite an impressive tirade. So your cleaner friend picked the relatvely no stress, brainless job of a cleaner (no offense intended) to a job that requires use of his education and a degree of responsibility.
I have to use my brain to decide what to eat and where to sleep!!!!! :up: and also weather or not to take the overtime!!! ;)
 
PineyBob said:
One of the beautiful things about Sales and Sales Trianing is you get to see a great many different companies and how they do things.

This fact is one of the reasons I get so gosh darned angry at US. They do many many things very well and others equally as horrible.
Suggestion Bob: Next meeting you have with this management team and since you love U, why don't you give them a freebie. Hold one of your sales seminars and teach these people who are running U what they are doing wrong and how they should correct it.

Since they didn't listen to the IAM on cost cutting suggestions maybe your input will reap better results, never know till you try, and you say you have their ear.
 

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