FA TA voted down

[Toothy Grin]

Boo hoo hoo what are you a 4 yr old . What you did in that past miss self important is past . Where and how much money is in it? not enough to fund FA's paychecks. Again quit with the strike BS. You are of no help , just like SU email to the FA's. unless your goining to fund it stay the hell out of it. Your old news move on. We still earn a living here you chose to leave !!! . CC days as clt Lecp are numbered and this will help our members . You are of no help here.

+1

Pitbull=Dog barking at itself in a mirror.

This is why the ideas she proposed for "solving" the issues we have are useless.

 

[PITbull]

http://www.thestreet...?cm_ven=GOOGLEN

Despite being wrong, you continue to peddle falsehoods. US management said that the TA would have increased its flight attendant costs by $40 million annually. Yet for some inexplicable reason, you continue to insist otherwise. Perhaps it's a reading comprehension deficit.



http://online.wsj.co...1664361722.html

A 13% hourly payraise for East and a 25% hourly payraise for West and yet you continue to incorrectly insist that the annual cost increase is instead a life of the contract increase. Perhaps it's the schools.



http://ourafa.org/q-a/

The TA provided an immediate payraise of $5.64/hr for the East. At 1,000 hours per year, that equals almost $6,000. The West FAs stood to gain far more. And yet you continue to insist that everyone else is wrong and that you are right.

You are wrong.



Yes, everyone in the country is being asked to shoulder a bigger portion of their heath care costs. Nevertheless, your math is faulty. The failed TA would have increased the company's expense by an estimated $40 million per year, not the $8 million per year you ignorantly insist.

It's no skin off my nose that the FAs rejected this TA, but misinformation like you're peddling must be corrected.

FWAAA Said:
above: "Despite being wrong, you continue to peddle falsehoods. US management said that the TA would have increased its flight attendant costs by $40 million annually. Yet for some inexplicable reason, you continue to insist otherwise. Perhaps it's a reading comprehension deficit."




ok. Let's do the long math, shall we:

Here's is what you proport the $$ value per f/as is per year that I disagree with:

Approx. 5,500 f/as at US Airways.

$40,000,000 divided by 5,500 f/as = 7,272.00 per f/a per year; basically an approx 25% overall increase per year. right??? Hmmm...

YOU are conveying to the f/as that the cost $$ amount to the company in this failed T/A is: $7,272.00 to each f/a each year x 5 years = $36,360.00 per f/a.

Do you expect anyone and I mean anyone, but an imbacile to believe that management negotiated $36,360 to each f/a at US Airways in this T/A of $40,000,000 x 5 = $200,000,000.00 life of the contract???

Cause this is simple math, my friend.

Hell, in both BK, the U f/as gave approx $200,000,000 in 3 restructuring agreements.

You are basically saying that the f/as just got it all back in this contract????

Who do you expect to believe that?

I guess you are going out of business in 5 years!

YOU continue to LIE to the f/a group? If you are the one responsible for putting the Q&A out and supplying the f/as misinformation, then THIS IS WHY THE T/A FAILED!!!!

Cause it is just simply not true...not even if you cost out the wages possbile DH assumption, sick, and betting that each f/a will work every single off day 30 days a month.

According to your theory that the $40,000,000/per year contract has actually given the f/as about a 100% increase through the life of this contract back in their pockets???? Basically snaping back to 2001 level of compensation....

If this is not true, please explain what the cost to the company with this contract over 5 years would be.



Post your math, and cost it out.

And then let us know what the f/as gave in 3 restruc. contracts total.

I was there, I'd like to see you post it.

 

[Toothy Grin]

You still don't have a skill set that turns you from the chains that bind you! A slave to the master, an easy mark! No, choices just blame, self explanatory!

Mutant Mucous,

I'm simply reflecting your issues back to you...now you know who you are. I've not blamed you, have I? I have not. I've gotta ask at this point, what exactly are these "chains that bind me" thus making me a slave to the master?

Go ahead, I'll grab the popcorn, you bring the vodka lol...this is gonna be good. lol. I await you're monologue...the lights are low...you're on!

 

[etops1]

God Teddy . Go away already. Haven't you retired ? No one cares what your tired old ass has to say .Your a huge pain in the ass . Get the f out of here. This is no longer your fight . Get a life.

 

[FWAAA]

ok. Let's do the long math, shall we:

Here's is what you proport the $$ value per f/as is per year that I disagree with:

Approx. 5,500 f/as at US Airways.

There are approximately 6,500 FAs. 5,527 of them voted, and that was just 85% of them, so there are about 6,500 total.

$40,000,000 divided by 5,500 f/as = 7,272.00 per f/a per year; basically an approx 25% overall increase per year. right??? Hmmm...

YOU are conveying to the f/as that the cost $$ amount to the company in this failed T/A is: $7,272.00 to each f/a each year x 5 years = $36,360.00 per f/a.

$40 million divided by 6,500 FAs equals $6,154 per FA per year. The TA gave the East FAs a raise of about 13%, not 25%. The TA gave the West FAs a raise of about 25%. The East FAs would have received a raise of $5.64/hr at top of scale and the West FAs would have received a much larger raise (a 25% increase). If you multiply the hourly raise by 1,000 hours, that equals $5,640 per year for an East FA. For the West FAs, their $9/hr increase would equal $9,000 more per year.

Do you expect anyone and I mean anyone, but an imbacile to believe that management negotiated $36,360 to each f/a at US Airways in this T/A of $40,000,000 x 5 = $200,000,000.00 life of the contract???

Cause this is simple math, my friend.

Hell, in both BK, the U f/as gave approx $200,000,000 in 3 restructuring agreements.

You are basically saying that the f/as just got it all back in this contract????

Who do you expect to believe that?

I guess you are going out of business in 5 years!

YOU continue to LIE to the f/a group? If you are the one responsible for putting the Q&A out and supplying the f/as misinformation, then THIS IS WHY THE T/A FAILED!!!!

Cause it is just simply not true...not even if you cost out the wages possbile DH assumption, sick, and betting that each f/a will work every single off day 30 days a month.

According to your theory that the $40,000,000/per year contract has actually given the f/as about a 100% increase through the life of this contract back in their pockets???? Basically snaping back to 2001 level of compensation....

If this is not true, please explain what the cost to the company with this contract over 5 years would be.

Post your math, and cost it out.

And then let us know what the f/as gave in 3 restruc. contracts total.

I was there, I'd like to see you post it.

13% hourly payraise for the East and 25% hourly payraise for the West. According to Bob Herbst (Airline Financials), the average US FA earns about $40,000 compared to AA's average of $50,000. Even with this raise, the US payrates will still lag the payrates at UA, DL and AA. US spends about $325 million each year on its FAs; the $40 million per year increase is long overdue but doesn't represent generosity by Parker.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

It's a $40 million contract expense for the company, for the f/a group over the life of the contract. Translating to approx. 8Million per year, equates to approx $1455.00 per f/a per year..

For someone to perpetuate this rumor is inexcusable.

Show me where it says "NOT" annually?

You can't.

IF, you are able to read you will find that it DOES say ANNUALLY at ourafa.org.

$40,000,000.00 a year lost because people can't read.

$200,000,000.00 lost over 5 years!

You are the perfect example of someone who is either unwilling or unable to read. Do you work for the company now?

ourafa.org, read it for yourself, if you can.

That would be for the ones not married to a USAPA supporter (CC).

$40,000,000.00 a year lost to stupidity, ignorance or other reasons,
none are excusable.

PIT must have moved to CLT.

Scope IS intact.

MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM! MM!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

PITBOVIN (gender neutral) why didn't AWA fire their mediator?

You have all the answers.

Let's hear it.

MM!MM!MM! MM! MM! MM! M! MM! MM!MM! MM!MM!MM!

 

[SparrowHawk]

Giving up 40,000,000 per year is SMART!

If you think you can get 60,000,000 and given the current situation perhaps you can.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

PITBOVIN (gender neutral) why didn't AWA fire their mediator?

You have all the answers.

Let's hear it.

MM!MM!MM! MM! MM! MM! M! MM! MM!MM! MM!MM!MM!

AND THE VOTES IMAGINE THAT! MUTATIS!

 

[curious1]

I am really curious to know why the America West flight attendants didn't just negotiate their own contract which was amendable at the time of the merger in 2005? Why did they pin their hopes on East flight attendants and try to get a contract with a different group? They really messed up on that one. They should have gotten their own contract and then talked about merging with the east. Then they wouldn't be in this mess right now. Hopefully when the US/AA merger happens the groups that have amendable contracts will negiate their own contract first, then talk about a merger.

 

[diamondcutter]

I am really curious to know why the America West flight attendants didn't just negotiate their own contract which was amendable at the time of the merger in 2005? Why did they pin their hopes on East flight attendants and try to get a contract with a different group? They really messed up on that one. They should have gotten their own contract and then talked about merging with the east. Then they wouldn't be in this mess right now. Hopefully when the US/AA merger happens the groups that have amendable contracts will negiate their own contract first, then talk about a merger.

Tha NMB would not let them they did not even have a TA to vote on. The NMB said just work on a single agreement with US

 

[FWAAA]

Giving up 40,000,000 per year is SMART!

If you think you can get 60,000,000 and given the current situation perhaps you can.

That may be the right way to go, but the union's hired gun economist, Dan Akin (who has consulted for APFA at AA and various other unions as well) thought that it was important for the US FAs to ratify this agreement because pay rates are considered by arbitrators during seniority arbitrations. Why is that important? Because if Parker succeeds in taking over AA, the US FAs may not fare as well in the inevitable arbitration because of their very low pay compared to AA's current pay.

Another thing to consider is that if there's a merger, there will be a new contract negotiated by the combined workgroup. Even if that agreement is just slightly better than the current AA agreement (AA FAs make about 25% more, on average, than US FAs), the US FAs will benefit from that higher pay. Thing is, they just turned down a big raise (twice now this year), and the US FAs are unlikely to get that money in retro pay. The current TA had no retro pay because Parker wouldn't agree to it.

Unlike some, I'm not going to tell anyone how to vote on a TA. But two US AFA leadership teams have now supported TAs this year and both have failed. The union's hired help consultants gave compelling reasons to ratify the agreements. But the TAs fail to be ratified.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I am really curious to know why the America West flight attendants didn't just negotiate their own contract which was amendable at the time of the merger in 2005? Why did they pin their hopes on East flight attendants and try to get a contract with a different group? They really messed up on that one. They should have gotten their own contract and then talked about merging with the east. Then they wouldn't be in this mess right now. Hopefully when the US/AA merger happens the groups that have amendable contracts will negiate their own contract first, then talk about a merger.

You're kidding with this stuff, right?

 

[PITbull]

PITBOVIN (gender neutral) why didn't AWA fire their mediator?

You have all the answers.

Let's hear it.

MM!MM!MM! MM! MM! MM! M! MM! MM!MM! MM!MM!MM!

Both parties (AWA and Company) have to agree to bring on a mediator. They are paid by both parties.

AFA representing both US Airways and Am. West should have let the mediator go after the first failed T/A. Am. West was in sec. 6 when the merger announcement happened in 2005. US Airways f/a just negotiated a bk conseesion contract in Jan. 2005. The negotiations was to merge both groups together under a single contract; "best nation" as they say.

Being that Am West was so poorly compensated, and US Airways just came out of BK, the company was trying to pull out more cost savings from the East f/as, rather than pull the Am west f/as up.

Seven years later, the East f/as who had taken such a beating during both bk, now had to take their portion of that pie and spread it over the the West f/as...just for them to receive "pay parity". West f/as are mostly satisfied with the increase and the T/A after being at the bottom of the barrel for a decade, but the East f/as say...no way, hosea. Not good enough after giving all the sacrifices made to even allow for a merger to exist in the first place for 7 plus years, as the creditors and investors of the newly emerged US Airways would not have allowed the merger without the concessions in place, sacrifices made, and a "business plan for survival and growth". U East Labor did that, and now its there turn to obtain a fair, equatible contract that rewards for the sacrifices made.

When the T/A failed the first time, the mediator should have been shown the street. US Airways f/as are in Sec. 6 now too, but my understanding is that Flores agreed last year to combine the sec. 6 and the joint negotiations under one umbrella. The AFA
miust have convinced him to do it this way....cost savings.
But, the f/as ousted him after the first failed t/a.
The f/ashave had it and the company should get it by now.

When AA f/as who are in bk, have a better pay rate than US Airways f/as after 7 years and two neg. T/As, you got to ask yourself what is going on here. And, who is taking advantage of whom; the evidenced speaks volumes here.

 

[PITbull]

That may be the right way to go, but the union's hired gun economist, Dan Akin (who has consulted for APFA at AA and various other unions as well) thought that it was important for the US FAs to ratify this agreement because pay rates are considered by arbitrators during seniority arbitrations. Why is that important? Because if Parker succeeds in taking over AA, the US FAs may not fare as well in the inevitable arbitration because of their very low pay compared to AA's current pay.

Another thing to consider is that if there's a merger, there will be a new contract negotiated by the combined workgroup. Even if that agreement is just slightly better than the current AA agreement (AA FAs make about 25% more, on average, than US FAs), the US FAs will benefit from that higher pay. Thing is, they just turned down a big raise (twice now this year), and the US FAs are unlikely to get that money in retro pay. The current TA had no retro pay because Parker wouldn't agree to it.

Unlike some, I'm not going to tell anyone how to vote on a TA. But two US AFA leadership teams have now supported TAs this year and both have failed. The union's hired help consultants gave compelling reasons to ratify the agreements. But the TAs fail to be ratified.

Just shows you that the f/as collectively have had about enough of U mangement running the f/as over the coals. Pay up! that's what they are saying. Give them a fair wage. Am West got approx 25% over five years, East f/as got half that over 5 years. The East f/as went backwards for the past decade, and made sacrifices by allowing the co. to gutt the contracts, dump the pensions to grow an airline and put the airline in the black on the backs of the labor groups while in BK.

Keeping in line with your opiinion, Am. West got better than their pay rates in both T/As, because U wages were better even after two BK than Am West. The U f/as have to give a lion's share of that $40 million with the West just to bring West up to pay parity. East 13% pay raise over 5 years is not much at all. And that is 13% over FIVE years; not 13% per year...you do get it don't you??? Cause we get it, even though some on this board do not.