Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

If USAPA submits a single DOH list I bet the company will have a say in the matter.

Usapa boxed themselves in, 10h prohibits them from submitting a single DOH list.

Guess they need a better lawyer.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I'm saying that unlike the America West SLI, we should make an argument based on reality instead of demagoguery.

You believe whatever you want though.

Reality that we're worth spit and our time here isn't worth the Mickey on your mouse.

Tell that to the TWA guys. You'll get lots of laughs.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Usapa boxed themselves in, 10h prohibits them from submitting a single DOH list.

Guess they need a better lawyer.

Not what I heard.

 

[cleardirect]

Agreed. We will NOT be limiting our argument to DOH in the arbitration. We made tat mistake with the West. We can be integrated with BETTER than DOH over the APA pilots. The gloves come off and APA pilots should go beneath US Airways pilots.

Looking forward to the arbitration.

Man you need to add a smiley face to that or people will think that you are serious.

Btw weren't you one of the guys insisting that the list would be negotiated?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Your are wrong about me being JS. Could you be wrong about anything else?

Wrong about everything. Keep that in mind with you read anonymous postings on a public forum.

Greeter

 

[Beancounter]

I wasn't trying to make the point of who bought who. As I have always stated I firmly believe in a "time in service" based approach. I was just saying that if the APA is going to leave the LOS/DOH argument behind and advocate a position that they say their pilots should be rationed at rates higher than our pilots then why shouldn't we make the same argument that we should be ratioed higher than them going into a true arbitration?

Because they're right.

Bean

 

[Ames]

Has anyone seen the recent letter by the APA president to the members? THEY AREN'T BUYING DOH.

Suck it up, kiddies. You are the new minority and your DOH fantasy officially dies here.

 

[Beancounter]

Has anyone seen the recent letter by the APA president to the members? THEY AREN'T BUYING DOH.

Suck it up, kiddies. You are the new minority and your DOH fantasy officially dies here.

Please post if allowed.

Bean

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I suggest that you read the letter from the company to the NMB.

Then understand that nothing the west is doing is designed or intended to stop the merger. So your false statement about the stockholders having to wait is just wrong.

Seniority has nothing to do with the merger process.

Yes the company may be neutral on seniority but they are not neutral on getting sued or delaying combining the airline. The company would not be neutral on C&R that restrict their ability to operate the company like they want. Example, restricting PHX to a certain size. Locking aircraft into or out of CLT or PHL. Restricting moving pilots from on base to another. Fences.

They are neutral on seniority but not on what seniority means for their business.

Think the company would be neutral on a multi million dollar law suit?

Once the APA becomes the bargaining agent do you think they will care about a law suit?

Beside what have you guys held all along? A new bargaining agent can do what ever they want. If the APA does not like the list usapa gave them. Just change it. According to usapa they can do that.

Of course. Everyone involved right now is zeroed in on the AWA seniority issue..not. Problem has been solved, the West class just voted to be a part of a new merger, one in which their own union (USAPA), APA, and the neutral Company will participate in M/B.

Ok everyone. Based on Clear's last sentence, he really has either no logic or is simply here to roil the waters, maybe just a better spoken Move2Clt.

I would never bother to put anyone on ignore, but I am done with responding to any of his stuff. He arguments are circular and repetitive. To everyones' relief, that should cut my written participation here at least in half.

Greeter

 

[snapthis]

Usapa boxed themselves in, 10h prohibits them from submitting a single DOH list.

Guess they need a better lawyer.

I know of the perfect law firm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5iGAAAo2v0&sns=em

 

[cleardirect]

Personally, I was not aware of that. The west pilots who have taken positions on the east should definitely have come on board with their west DOH intact.

Assuming you are correct, then treating them as new hires is hypocritical on USAPA's part. I will be contacting my reps and Hummel to make my thoughts known.

On another note, regarding Nicolau's Trump Shuttle integration with US Air, IMHO he got it wrong there, too. Nicolau is a "slotting arbitrator" when it came to pilots. NOTHING anyone says or does on the Merger Committees would ever change that. That is why I thought the US Merger Committee was incredibly stupid when they bragged about getting Nicolau for the AW/US mediation/arbitration. The US Committee should have struck him immediately, IMHO.

Yes usapa is hypocritical. There are a lot issues usapa has been hypocritical about.

Usapa not going to arbitration over the west distance learning just agreeing that the west would repay $2.5 million. Yet took the MDA grievance to arbitration. Lost. Called the arbitrator incompetent and threaten to go to federal court. Disparate representation? I think so.

I have heard from east pilots the reason the MC picked Nicolau. That he screwed up the Trump arbitration, he knows it and he owes the east. That Nicolau would make it up with the AWA pilots.

Think about that logic. An arbitrator admits he is wrong. To fix that list that same arbitrator would then treat another group unfairly to make up for the last unfair list.

Does that make sense to you? But that is the logic I get from east pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA will exist until the MB process is completed. That means, according to Wilson, 24-30 months.

Where in the MOU does it say that?

The MOU says that the APA will petition the NMB as soon as possible. Once the NMB rules instantly usapa goes away.

How long did ALPA survive after the NMB ruled?

Once the APA has been determined to be the bargains agent who do you send you extortion I mean dues money to? APA or usapa?

Without dues money or legal standing usapa is just a bunch of letter from a former bargaining agent.

 

[cleardirect]

Again, there was a grievance on this very thing that USAPA brought on behalf of the West pilots. Unfortunately the WEST pilots failed to bring the necessary legal assistance (their testimony) and the grievance was lost. It wasn't USAPA's fault.

Go to the website and download the grievance yourself. I believe it was TA-5.

Incorrect.

T/A 5 is not even listed on the usapa site.
T/A 9 was about furloughs out of seniority. Read the name of the arbitration.

Tracy loved to use that excuse that the west refused to help. Untrue.

Yeah, yeah it is never usapa's fault for anything.

Usapa has never insisted that the west pilots on the east get their DOH. Pure hypocrisy. Not going be defendable in court either. Well your honor usapa is a "gold standard" DOH union except when it come to west DOH.

 

[cleardirect]

Huh?

I simply was quoting Wilson. So, you imply we just bow to APA and give them whatever they want so we DON'T go to arbitration. This arbitration will not be the same as the one arbitrator we had last.

But hey, believe what you want.

You don't want to bow to the APA but you want the west to now to a single sided usapa list?

At least usapa has a chance at arbitration. Usapa is just trying to impose its will.

Hypocrisy at it brightest.

 

[cleardirect]

Of course. Everyone involved right now is zeroed in on the AWA seniority issue..not. Problem has been solved, the West class just voted to be a part of a new merger, one in which their own union (USAPA), APA, and the neutral Company will participate in M/B.

Ok everyone. Based on Clear's last sentence, he really has either no logic or is simply here to roil the waters, maybe just a better spoken Move2Clt.

I would never bother to put anyone on ignore, but I am done with responding to any of his stuff. He arguments are circular and repetitive. To everyones' relief, that should cut my written participation here at least in half.

Greeter

Finally seeing the light of usapa.

I am simply repeating the argument usapa has made.

The majority can do what they want.

A new bargaining agent can do what they want and disregard the old bargaining agent. APA ,usapa.

Sounds wrong and circular when applied to a different situation doesn't it.