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Fireworks and drama in manhattan...

To be fair, has anyone thought about just how much in legal fees TWU and APFA are avoiding by having agreed to the LBO's?

Fact is, someone has to pay for the fight, Dave, and there's a limit to what the estate has to reimburse.

At some point, the war chest runs out, and I don't see any of the other unions stepping up to the plate to kick in a few bucks.

I agree, but if an organization will spend millions on a Democrat, and not representing the members, then they should and will be replaced.

The TWU, APA, and APFA claim to have an alliance or coalition until it comes to fighting or spending dues on the members, then one or two always runs to hide, gets a "me too" clause and sit around reaping the benefits of the fighters. Pathetic to be called a "union".
 
They still gave up the equity share they were going to get under the TA.

How can you say that when you don't know what we will get for a final deal?

They have already stated they will NOT support any deal that increases costs above the deals made so far.

If they give is more, it will be real easy to spin (lie) and say that the gains we go do not increase costs. Furthermore, all they have to do is increase the value of concessions made in other areas to say that this was a "break even deal". This is all face saving BS but the whole process was BS so this will blend in with the rest. Good luck grieving it under "me too".

Regardless of what the APA says, AA management cannot agree to any increases without approval from the creditors committee. Any increase in value to the APA would drive an equal increase in costs from all other groups who have voted in TAs. The APA lost today and no spin changes that.

Based upon what the UCC said today, there is no reason to believe that the UCC will not be pushing "sweetners" in a deal to get a deal done with the APA.

I don't know what is in your "me too" clause (anyone care to post the language?) but I know the FAs said that it drops dead (paraphrasing) "if the company receives, OR IS EXPECTED TO RECEIVE the savings it desires from the APA". Allowing management to abrogate our contract activates this drop dead clause. The company now "expects" to receive the savings it desires from us, as they are able to shred our contract at will.

I really don't know why contractual language like this was left in the FA contract, but nonetheless, it was. Good luck grieving that.

As for us "losing" today, yes we did. The big story is not who wins the battle but who wins the war. I'm sorry that you hitched your wagon to the French leadership, but now you will have to live with the fact that you may have made a big mistake.
 
As for us "losing" today, yes we did. The big story is not who wins the battle but who wins the war. I'm sorry that you hitched your wagon to the French leadership, but now you will have to live with the fact that you may have made a big mistake.

Ain't that the truth. "French leadrship" Bawahahaha
 
I'll second Super Fluf's observation on the "Me Too" clauses.

They aren't worth the paper they're printed on at this point. They drop dead either on (1.) 6 months after exiting Bankruptcy (problematic given the statements from the UCC and the Judge, or (2). After at least "17% or more" of contract savings are implemented. (the day after they get implemented)

Just the retirment whack alone probably gets near 17%. Toss in easy changes like health care, trip guarantees, monthly guarantees and probably a few others, then we're well above the "implemented" cost savings.


My guess is they will push us for awhile because it will be a freebie and there's always the hope we crack, and it gets them out of the clauses.

It did sound good on paper didn't it?
 
How can you say that when you don't know what we will get for a final deal?



If they give is more, it will be real easy to spin (lie) and say that the gains we go do not increase costs. Furthermore, all they have to do is increase the value of concessions made in other areas to say that this was a "break even deal". This is all face saving BS but the whole process was BS so this will blend in with the rest. Good luck grieving it under "me too".



Based upon what the UCC said today, there is no reason to believe that the UCC will not be pushing "sweetners" in a deal to get a deal done with the APA.

I don't know what is in your "me too" clause (anyone care to post the language?) but I know the FAs said that it drops dead (paraphrasing) "if the company receives, OR IS EXPECTED TO RECEIVE the savings it desires from the APA". Allowing management to abrogate our contract activates this drop dead clause. The company now "expects" to receive the savings it desires from us, as they are able to shred our contract at will.

I really don't know why contractual language like this was left in the FA contract, but nonetheless, it was. Good luck grieving that.

As for us "losing" today, yes we did. The big story is not who wins the battle but who wins the war. I'm sorry that you hitched your wagon to the French leadership, but now you will have to live with the fact that you may have made a big mistake.
No "sweeteners" the UCC stated that they will not support any additional economic value beyond the current deals. You need to read their August 16th statement. Their may be shuffling of the deck chairs but the APA isn't getting more than anyone else. That would trigger the reopening of all the other deals and the UCC will not allow that to happen.

Keep dreaming though...

And the APA gave up that equity for now but at best all they will get is the equity share back that they didn't accept in the TA.

Again, they did not win anything.
 
I'll second Super Fluf's observation on the "Me Too" clauses.

They aren't worth the paper they're printed on at this point. They drop dead either on (1.) 6 months after exiting Bankruptcy (problematic given the statements from the UCC and the Judge, or (2). After at least "17% or more" of contract savings are implemented. (the day after they get implemented)

Just the retirment whack alone probably gets near 17%. Toss in easy changes like health care, trip guarantees, monthly guarantees and probably a few others, then we're well above the "implemented" cost savings.


My guess is they will push us for awhile because it will be a freebie and there's always the hope we crack, and it gets them out of the clauses.

It did sound good on paper didn't it?

You Pilots could well end up being our best Organizers in the Mechanic and Related in pursuit of replacing the TWU.
Keep up the fight and win a few rounds between now and the end of this fight.
Prove the TWU inept and liars and we will use that to help ourselves.
 
I'll second Super Fluf's observation on the "Me Too" clauses.

They aren't worth the paper they're printed on at this point. They drop dead either on (1.) 6 months after exiting Bankruptcy (problematic given the statements from the UCC and the Judge, or (2). After at least "17% or more" of contract savings are implemented. (the day after they get implemented)

Just the retirment whack alone probably gets near 17%. Toss in easy changes like health care, trip guarantees, monthly guarantees and probably a few others, then we're well above the "implemented" cost savings.


My guess is they will push us for awhile because it will be a freebie and there's always the hope we crack, and it gets them out of the clauses.

It did sound good on paper didn't it?
Okay which is it? Is the UCC going to let the APA exit BK with or without a deal. The Me Too clauses will drop six months after exiting BK and if the UCC has it their way then the APA will have a deal before exiting BK. That means the Me Too clause will be in effect.

Nice spin though
 
I'll second Super Fluf's observation on the "Me Too" clauses.

They aren't worth the paper they're printed on at this point. They drop dead either on (1.) 6 months after exiting Bankruptcy (problematic given the statements from the UCC and the Judge, or (2). After at least "17% or more" of contract savings are implemented. (the day after they get implemented)

Just the retirment whack alone probably gets near 17%. Toss in easy changes like health care, trip guarantees, monthly guarantees and probably a few others, then we're well above the "implemented" cost savings.


My guess is they will push us for awhile because it will be a freebie and there's always the hope we crack, and it gets them out of the clauses.

It did sound good on paper didn't it?
I beg to differ Mach,
The twu negotiated a solid "Me Too clause" and has language that is yet to be seen. We are still fighting like hell !!!!
 
Odie, could you please post the language you guys have in your "me too"? I saw the FA contract but not the TWU.

UCC says company needs deal with APA for BK exit.

Strike ballots go out tomorrow.

Interesting times we live in. 🙂
 
For clarification I think the Pilots are correct and the implentation of their term sheet will will kill the TWU "me too" clause. Any negotiations after the implementation will be irrelevant to the "me too" clause because this letter has been satisifed per paragrpah 2 below.

Congrats TWU, you have been out maneuvered once again. Better have Levine make another video. DUMBASSES!!!!



LETTER OF MEMORANDUM – 13- "Me Too"
DOS
Mr. Robert F. Gless
Deputy Director - ATD
AA System Coordinator
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Drive
Hurst, TX 76054

"Me, too provision"

Dear Robert,
During the negotiations that led to the signing of the Agreement between American Airlines, Inc. ("AA" or "the Company") and the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO ("TWU") covering Maintenance and Related Agreement, the Company and the TWU agreed to the following, effective upon ratification:

1) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in this Restructuring Agreement ("Agreement"), the Company will continue to seek approval to implement, through binding agreement, and/or implemented by legal unilateral authority, revisions to (i) the labor contracts of the Company’s other non-TWU unionized employees and (ii) the wages, benefits and working conditions of the Company’s non-union hourly employees and (iii) the wages, benefits and working conditions of the non-union salaried and management employees so that the aggregate revisions in (i),(ii) and (iii) for each individual non-TWU union and non-union employee group are reasonably projected by the Company to produce the targets for labor cost savings specified in the Company’s Section 1113© motion.

2) The Company agrees that if the Company fails to implement the changes described in paragraph 1 for any other non-TWU union or non-union employee group, without implementing other changes that are reasonably projected by the Company to achieve equivalent labor cost savings, the Company will meet with TWU to discuss and agree upon a proportionate reduction in projected labor cost savings under the Agreement. This paragraph shall expire upon the earlier of 1) six (6) months after the date the Company emerges from the bankruptcy process; or 2) when the changes described in paragraph 1, or other changes that are reasonably projected by the Company to achieve equivalent labor cost savings, are implemented for all non-TWU union or non-union employee groups.

3) The Company further agrees that if it obtains modifications to agreements with other non-TWU union groups that result in labor cost savings to the Company from reduction in TWU represented employees working under TWU agreements, it will meet with TWU to discuss and agree upon an appropriate credit to the TWU based on the level of labor cost savings realized by the Company from that reduction.

4) The Company will provide TWU with sufficient relevant information reasonably necessary for TWU to determine compliance with the terms of this agreement.

5) Any alleged violation of these provisions will be resolved pursuant to the grievance and arbitration procedures of the applicable TWU Agreement.

If this letter accurately reflects the agreement of the parties, please indicate by signing below.
Sincerely,

Agreed to:


{Original Signed on File}


{Original Signed on File}


________________________


________________________


James B. Weel


Robert F. Gless


Managing Director


Deputy Director


Employee Relations


Air Transport Division


American Airlines, Inc.


Transport Workers Union of American, AFL-CIO
 
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The Pain is coming!!!
 
I believe this will add about 6 more months before AA will be able to exit, slowing down the merger analysis, and renegotiating toward a consensual contract. The UCC has already stated they will not support an agreement that costs more than the LBO, so prepare for lots of infighting between the bases on how best to repackage the 17% reduction in costs. Actually there is no hurry for AMR to exit other than to get on with the POR. Staying in bankruptcy for a long time actually benefitted UAL and actually caused them to come back and negotiate for additional relief. Recent changes in bankruptcy law have been focused on faster time frames, but this is unusual since the unfriendly merger potential is lurking, and any downturn of the economy can justify additional cost reductions. It seems like this is a very chancy path APA has chosen.
 
Okay which is it? Is the UCC going to let the APA exit BK with or without a deal. The Me Too clauses will drop six months after exiting BK and if the UCC has it their way then the APA will have a deal before exiting BK. That means the Me Too clause will be in effect.

Nice spin though

Read my post again and your "Me Too" clause. It states one of two events "1" or "2".
As I stated #1 of exiting BK becomes a problem with what the Judge and the UCC said about needing consensual aggreements before exiting BK. The pilots aren't signing a slightly sweetened LBFO that will get everyone else a few doggy bones inside of BK. If they can exit BK without us with approval, fine, your "Me too" clause drops dead in 6 months and one day.

#2 causes the "MT" to drop dead after they implement the cost savings. If they whacked enough in SEP, and they could, APA could sign a Delta contract in NOV and you probably wouldn't get squat for the "MT" clause since AA "implemented" the cost savings thereby causing the "MT" to drop dead in SEP. Got it?

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I've seen AMR treat many of the clauses in the APA contract with better language like roadkill enough times to supply every ticket holder at Cowboy Stadium with a free raccoon or possum hat on "Furry Hat Day".
 
For clarification I think the Pilots are correct and the implentation of their term sheet will will kill the TWU "me too" clause. Any negotiations after the implementation will be irrelevant to the "me too" clause because this letter has been satisifed per paragrpah 2 below.

Congrats TWU, you have been out maneuvered once again. Better have Levine make another video. DUMBASSES!!!!



LETTER OF MEMORANDUM – 13- "Me Too"
DOS
Mr. Robert F. Gless
Deputy Director - ATD
AA System Coordinator
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Drive
Hurst, TX 76054

"Me, too provision"

Dear Robert,
During the negotiations that led to the signing of the Agreement between American Airlines, Inc. ("AA" or "the Company") and the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO ("TWU") covering Maintenance and Related Agreement, the Company and the TWU agreed to the following, effective upon ratification:

1) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in this Restructuring Agreement ("Agreement"), the Company will continue to seek approval to implement, through binding agreement, and/or implemented by legal unilateral authority, revisions to (i) the labor contracts of the Company’s other non-TWU unionized employees and (ii) the wages, benefits and working conditions of the Company’s non-union hourly employees and (iii) the wages, benefits and working conditions of the non-union salaried and management employees so that the aggregate revisions in (i),(ii) and (iii) for each individual non-TWU union and non-union employee group are reasonably projected by the Company to produce the targets for labor cost savings specified in the Company’s Section 1113© motion.

2) The Company agrees that if the Company fails to implement the changes described in paragraph 1 for any other non-TWU union or non-union employee group, without implementing other changes that are reasonably projected by the Company to achieve equivalent labor cost savings, the Company will meet with TWU to discuss and agree upon a proportionate reduction in projected labor cost savings under the Agreement. This paragraph shall expire upon the earlier of 1) six (6) months after the date the Company emerges from the bankruptcy process; or 2) when the changes described in paragraph 1, or other changes that are reasonably projected by the Company to achieve equivalent labor cost savings, are implemented for all non-TWU union or non-union employee groups.

3) The Company further agrees that if it obtains modifications to agreements with other non-TWU union groups that result in labor cost savings to the Company from reduction in TWU represented employees working under TWU agreements, it will meet with TWU to discuss and agree upon an appropriate credit to the TWU based on the level of labor cost savings realized by the Company from that reduction.

4) The Company will provide TWU with sufficient relevant information reasonably necessary for TWU to determine compliance with the terms of this agreement.

5) Any alleged violation of these provisions will be resolved pursuant to the grievance and arbitration procedures of the applicable TWU Agreement.

If this letter accurately reflects the agreement of the parties, please indicate by signing below.
Sincerely,

Agreed to:


{Original Signed on File}


{Original Signed on File}


________________________


________________________


James B. Weel


Robert F. Gless


Managing Director


Deputy Director


Employee Relations


Air Transport Division


American Airlines, Inc.


Transport Workers Union of American, AFL-CIO
Dave, Dave, Dave...you need to control your anger.

The term sheet are not the final changes. As you pointed out already the UCC stated a deal must be made and since a deal has not been made and the situation is still fluid item 2) will not go in to effect until the equivalent savings has been achieved by AA. The Me Too clause will still be in effect after the term sheet has been implemented because the APA is still going to talk and work out a deal.

The TWU did not get out maneuvered. Calm down Dave. Your exuberance is premature.
 
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