Fleet Service: NO vote on the TA...

[BlackTail]

As a west employee, I must say that I am absolutely insulted by this crappy TA. I will most likely (as in 99% chance) vote NO. My question is, if the No votes do win, do we have to wait until 2009 on the west for a new contract.

As many of you know, our TWU contract expired in 2005, and we are in desperate need of a raise. I do, however see, that this TA will not really be a raise for the west because of higher medical, dental, optical, prescription costs, less holidays, harder double time rules, NO profit sharing, etc.

If we vote no, do they have to go back to the table and get us another TA? Or do we have to sit here and wait even longer?

The reason I ask is this paragraph from the IAM web site:

This contract will guarantee more job security, higher wages and increased pensions. The alternative is waiting until the East’s current December 31, 2009 amendable date to seek contract changes and taking our chances with the Change in Control grievance. Even winning that grievance would not provide the improvements contained in this tentative agreement. These improvements were achieved, in part, because of the increased leverage our Change in Control grievance provided. If the tentative agreement is accepted, the Change in Control grievance will be withdrawn.

 

[freedom]

you should ask your IAM rep , if your not carefull people here could give you misinformation .

EDIT: here's some Q and A from the iam webcite

http://www.iam141.org/q&a1.htm

 

[muircross]

BlackTail, you have to ask yourself who will gain from yor 'Yes" vote. The company? To be sure, they lock us in at substandard wages for at least 5 years, probably longer, and the beauty is we help pay for the wage increases with our own money. Your health care premiums will rise, you no longer get profit sharing, no more company match for your 'portable' 401-k. Also say good-bye to double time to mention a few.

How does the IAM make out with this new agreement? Well let's see. They get a windfall from pension contributions, 2700 more members dues( by the way they will go up significantly), and they had to do very little work for it, just to mention a few.

My recommendation to you, Blackie, is to follow the money, and be patient. Contract B is in Doug's desk right now.

P.S. Why couldn't they give you the whole raise now?

 

[freedom]

BlackTail, you have to ask yourself who will gain from yor 'Yes" vote. The company? To be sure, they lock us in at substandard wages for at least 5 years, probably longer, and the beauty is we help pay for the wage increases with our own money. Your health care premiums will rise, you no longer get profit sharing, no more company match for your 'portable' 401-k. Also say good-bye to double time to mention a few.

How does the IAM make out with this new agreement? Well let's see. They get a windfall from pension contributions, 2700 more members dues( by the way they will go up significantly), and they had to do very little work for it, just to mention a few.

My recommendation to you, Blackie, is to follow the money, and be patient. Contract B is in Doug's desk right now.

P.S. Why couldn't they give you the whole raise now?

be patient

be patient

be patient

remeber those words ? how many times have you heard them before ? get used to hearing them , because that's all your going to hear over and over and over again for the next few years...

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

As a west employee, I must say that I am absolutely insulted by this crappy TA. I will most likely (as in 99% chance) vote NO. My question is, if the No votes do win, do we have to wait until 2009 on the west for a new contract.

As many of you know, our TWU contract expired in 2005, and we are in desperate need of a raise. I do, however see, that this TA will not really be a raise for the west because of higher medical, dental, optical, prescription costs, less holidays, harder double time rules, NO profit sharing, etc.

If we vote no, do they have to go back to the table and get us another TA? Or do we have to sit here and wait even longer?

The reason I ask is this paragraph from the IAM web site:

This contract will guarantee more job security, higher wages and increased pensions. The alternative is waiting until the East’s current December 31, 2009 amendable date to seek contract changes and taking our chances with the Change in Control grievance. Even winning that grievance would not provide the improvements contained in this tentative agreement. These improvements were achieved, in part, because of the increased leverage our Change in Control grievance provided. If the tentative agreement is accepted, the Change in Control grievance will be withdrawn.

The no vote on this piece of crap TA will do 2 things really.......

First and foremost it will send a very clear message to the union and the company that this group is growing very tired of the B.S. that has been going on with this and show solidarity and strength and that we are prepared to fight this lame ass union as well as the company...

Second: It will force the union to actually do what they are paid by us to do and return to the bargaining table and fight to get us a better deal.......they will have no choice....

As for the Change of Control----if we do not ratify this piece of crap TA...my belief is that they will again push the arbitration date back so they can have some more time to re-negotiate.....

So we have absolutely nothing to lose----since we are not getting anything in this TA to begin with----by voting no.....

If anything it will make the entire group stronger and show the union and the company just how insulted we are by this....

I for one can not even believe they had the balls to bring this sh#t down at all.....what an insult to our intelligence...

VOTE NO EAST-WEST-SOUTH AND REMEMBER WE ARE VERY STRONG AS ONE UNITED GROUP

 

[freedom]

The no vote on this piece of crap TA will do 2 things really.......

First and foremost it will send a very clear message to the union and the company that this group is growing very tired of the B.S. that has been going on with this and show solidarity and strength and that we are prepared to fight this lame ass union as well as the company...

Second: It will force the union to actually do what they are paid by us to do and return to the bargaining table and fight to get us a better deal.......they will have no choice....

As for the Change of Control----if we do not ratify this piece of crap TA...my belief is that they will again push the arbitration date back so they can have some more time to re-negotiate.....

So we have absolutely nothing to lose----since we are not getting anything in this TA to begin with----by voting no.....

If anything it will make the entire group stronger and show the union and the company just how insulted we are by this....

I for one can not even believe they had the balls to bring this sh#t down at all.....what an insult to our intelligence...

VOTE NO EAST-WEST-SOUTH AND REMEMBER WE ARE VERY STRONG AS ONE UNITED GROUP

the East class one stations are only strong and united when it exclusively servers their own purposes , REMEMBER THAT ... also rememeber that as soon as you let your guard down you can expect a knife in your back , hello west workers , we are dealing with people who hacked into the supervisors work brain program (or bought the password i dunno ) and have been commiting WIDE SPEAD FRAUD.....

They do not have the moral high ground here .. does anyone remember how they BEAT UP our 4 guys , i think the odds were somewhat fair , what was it 22 against FOUR??!?! :blink:

of course hey maybe i'm wrong about this , it ends up a no vote , the union wins the arbitration award ,then bargins it away and then a year from now we all have a fantastic contract ? of course judging from what i've seen in the past i can't see that as a logical outcome . because giving away the arbitration award would require Sacrifice .

 

[flybynite]

View attachment 6245

 

[SetonHallPirate]

As a west employee, I must say that I am absolutely insulted by this crappy TA. I will most likely (as in 99% chance) vote NO. My question is, if the No votes do win, do we have to wait until 2009 on the west for a new contract.

As many of you know, our TWU contract expired in 2005, and we are in desperate need of a raise. I do, however see, that this TA will not really be a raise for the west because of higher medical, dental, optical, prescription costs, less holidays, harder double time rules, NO profit sharing, etc.

If we vote no, do they have to go back to the table and get us another TA? Or do we have to sit here and wait even longer?

The reason I ask is this paragraph from the IAM web site:

This contract will guarantee more job security, higher wages and increased pensions. The alternative is waiting until the East’s current December 31, 2009 amendable date to seek contract changes and taking our chances with the Change in Control grievance. Even winning that grievance would not provide the improvements contained in this tentative agreement. These improvements were achieved, in part, because of the increased leverage our Change in Control grievance provided. If the tentative agreement is accepted, the Change in Control grievance will be withdrawn.

For what it's worth, the terms of the T/A can be found below...

http://www.iam141.org/PDF/US%20Airways/IAM....FINAL.1145.pdf

 

[Tim Nelson]

BlackTail, you have to ask yourself who will gain from yor 'Yes" vote. The company? To be sure, they lock us in at substandard wages for at least 5 years, probably longer, and the beauty is we help pay for the wage increases with our own money. Your health care premiums will rise, you no longer get profit sharing, no more company match for your 'portable' 401-k. Also say good-bye to double time to mention a few.

How does the IAM make out with this new agreement? Well let's see. They get a windfall from pension contributions, 2700 more members dues( by the way they will go up significantly), and they had to do very little work for it, just to mention a few.

My recommendation to you, Blackie, is to follow the money, and be patient. Contract B is in Doug's desk right now.

P.S. Why couldn't they give you the whole raise now?

Muircross,
I'm surprised you forgot that the IAM also got confirmed positive space travel. Although people didn't realize, my understanding was that this positive space travel for Union Bosses and I believe their familes was a big sticking point for your company and held up negotiations for months. Anyways, I believe I mentioned this several months ago and I know for a fact that this enhanced language for positive space travel for union bosses cost 'tons'....and guess who wants you to pay for it????? No wonder why the union bosses are smoking their cigars right now.

$100,000 job, free day trip to New York for the mrs, and be back before the kids come home from school.

regards,

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

the East class one stations are only strong and united when it exclusively servers their own purposes , REMEMBER THAT ... also rememeber that as soon as you let your guard down you can expect a knife in your back , hello west workers , we are dealing with people who hacked into the supervisors work brain program (or bought the password i dunno ) and have been commiting WIDE SPEAD FRAUD.....

They do not have the moral high ground here .. does anyone remember how they BEAT UP our 4 guys , i think the odds were somewhat fair , what was it 22 against FOUR??!?! :blink:

of course hey maybe i'm wrong about this , it ends up a no vote , the union wins the arbitration award ,then bargins it away and then a year from now we all have a fantastic contract ? of course judging from what i've seen in the past i can't see that as a logical outcome . because giving away the arbitration award would require Sacrifice .

First of all you are dead wrong here----East class one stations are not all like PHL---trust me---

Those of us here long enough have been through this time after time and we speak from experience------believe the Union/Company if you like---but we are here now telling you what needs to be done---how to unite this group into a strong formidable foe against the crooked union and the greedy company------we have just one shot at this, so you just need to listen to us and think before you act---that's all we are saying--------if we vote no it sends a loud and clear message to the union and the company that we have had enough-----

Stop the in-fighting and start the real fighting where it needs to be fought--------

 

[freedom]

First of all you are dead wrong here----East class one stations are not all like PHL---trust me---

Those of us here long enough have been through this time after time and we speak from experience------believe the Union/Company if you like---but we are here now telling you what needs to be done---how to unite this group into a strong formidable foe against the crooked union and the greedy company------we have just one shot at this, so you just need to listen to us and think before you act---that's all we are saying--------if we vote no it sends a loud and clear message to the union and the company that we have had enough-----

Stop the in-fighting and start the real fighting where it needs to be fought--------

jimmy i would like to belive you care , but i have but one question for you , where were you a month ago ? 6 months ago ? a year ago ?

Why is it only NOW at the very end you pop up ready to fight ? i say this with a sigh , because we could have used more people like you long ago ...the crooked union is YOUR union jimmy , by doing nothing you accepted it , you made it status quo ... why didn't you fight it , so that we aren't having this conversation today jimmy ? You passed the buck off , and now it's come back to bite you ...THIS IS YOUR IAM!!!!!! YOUR LOUSY UNION!!!!!!!!!! what have you done to make it better eh jimmy ????i'm assuming not much , because when i first came to this board and mentioned the problems i had with the iam the response i got from the EAST COAST GUYS was about this "yeah that's they way they are , their crooked but what ya gonna do eh ?" ....

i'm sorry you dont like the contract we have to vote on , and i'm sorry that things have gone so badly for you east workers , i truly am , but as i said before in my other post , this is a chance for us to start over , or so it seems from where i stand . If your union supports our view then i see no reason we shouldn't go for it .You elected them .

 

[BlackTail]

I found this interesting thing on the IAM web site for west employees who might be interested:

Q: What happens if the Tentative Agreement is rejected?

A: US Airways will continue operating the East and West independently until a single agreement can be negotiated. The IAM will attempt to bring US Airways back to the table, but they can only be forced to negotiate for West employees, whose current collective bargaining agreement is amendable. US Airways does not have to negotiate for East employees until the East’s contract becomes amendable on December 31, 2009.

What this means to me is regardless of what happens, we on the west could still get a pay raise by voting no because our contract is still amendable. So for the sake of it VOTE NO since the work rules for us on the west will be much worse than they are now if this TA passes, not to mention we would be pissing our long deserved raise good by due to higher medical costs, prescription costs, loss of double time, loss of holidays, 50% pay for sick days, tough shift trade policies, etc!

West employees and East employees deserve much better from a company who will post a pre-tax profit of 1Billion dollars this year, that’s right $1,000,000,000!

I am definitely voting NO! We deserve better!!!

The way I see it is that we can all be united in voting NO! Get a better contact for the west in the interim after we shoot down this TA, and then down the road get a good joint contact that is good for both of US.

Rant over.

 

[727_4_Ever]

Just to show how strong our Change in Control is look at the IAM saying that if we don't take this deal we'll have to wait until 2009 to get to negotiate something different. So if that's the case and the Change in Control is really nothing why doesn't the company just make us stick with what we have until 2009 and beyond? Probably because A) They know this CIC is a very strong case and B) they know we always take the first crappy deal they throw our way. They win, win with a yes vote. We get a very sh***y deal and they get rid of the CIC. As for what would happen with a CIC victory IMO.... I believe the company would file a motion against paying it knowing it will stick just to give themselves time to offer EAST and WEST a Unified contract worth voting on. I understand this only covers East with the CIC but believe me both sides will benefit in the near future if it goes the way the CIC hearing should. As for this agreement I can't vote yes. I sympathize with the WEST as they've been getting the shaft for years with what they've been paid while Dougie and friends stuff their pockets and party it up. I can understand why they'd vote for this on the pay but hope they realize how much they giving up in turn. If this raise was clear money in the pocket I'd say no one out west should turn it down but they're losing too much in other areas that the NET result isn't good. Stay strong and vote NO.

 

[freedom]

I found this interesting thing on the IAM web site for west employees who might be interested:

Q: What happens if the Tentative Agreement is rejected?

A: US Airways will continue operating the East and West independently until a single agreement can be negotiated. The IAM will attempt to bring US Airways back to the table, but they can only be forced to negotiate for West employees, whose current collective bargaining agreement is amendable. US Airways does not have to negotiate for East employees until the East’s contract becomes amendable on December 31, 2009.

What this means to me is regardless of what happens, we on the west could still get a pay raise by voting no because our contract is still amendable. So for the sake of it VOTE NO since the work rules for us on the west will be much worse than they are now if this TA passes, not to mention we would be pissing our long deserved raise good by due to higher medical costs, prescription costs, loss of double time, loss of holidays, 50% pay for sick days, tough shift trade policies, etc!

West employees and East employees deserve much better from a company who will post a pre-tax profit of 1Billion dollars this year, that’s right $1,000,000,000!

I am definitely voting NO! We deserve better!!!

The way I see it is that we can all be united in voting NO! Get a better contact for the west in the interim after we shoot down this TA, and then down the road get a good joint contact that is good for both of US.

Rant over.

when i read that my heart jumed too , but then i remembered doug pakrkers favorite words which go something like "no contract until we intergrate the workforces" and i remember it to because i was at one of the town halls where we posed that very same question to him , and we asked it over and over again lol and he gave the same response over and over again , if you don't belive me log onto the compass webicte and check the townhall meetings for fleet in PHX ....

yah if someone can find a way out of this mess please let me know .....

 

[philly rocks]

Freedom, now I am chasing you on two threads. Answer to your question, EVERYONE can find a way out of this mess by voting NO.
Remember YOU are the UNION and you are the LEADERS.

There are how many thousands of IAM and how many Usairways bargainers? You have them outnumbered and they are breaking you all down. Don't let it happen.