Flt Attendant pay in 2008 vs 1986

[Garfield1966]

You just remember what you said IF one of your loved ones OR YOU are on a burning plane stuck and not know how to get off...as in AF Toronto.

It's called human insurance, kinda like firefighters, but used less often (thank GOD) and many normal people value it FAR more than silly little pundits about career moves.

Kinda like the US gov. allowing America's civil air plane fleet to be sent to Communist China for repairs while focused on greed ...until the day comes when War rears it's ugly head over Taiwan, and China grounds half our civil fleet.

Those silly useless Flight Attendants, they should be banned.

Never said they were useless. I said it requires very little training. Perhaps that difference eluded you.

 

[Nor'Easta]

I figure a few more years for me at most and I will find another department in AA to terrorize. Hmmmmm may flight service

You will never make it in flight service. If you decide to try it....I will eat you up and spit your a** out when you issue corrective action against a flight attendant. I will rake you over the coals in a NOD hearing and even more in Arbitration!

 

[Garfield1966]

And mbm is concerned about me? lol. You actually think I would want to go to Flt Svcs? I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. As entertaining as it would be to play in your sand box, given that Flt svcs seems to be in bed with the APFA it is not my cup of tea to be a yes man for the APFA. If they ever grow a set I might reconsider.

BTW, correct me if I am wrong but your job requires a GED or equivalent, 6 weeks of training which if memory serves me correctly the FAA said AA could do in 10 or 11 days when the strike happened back in the 90's. I am sure that you are not arguing that you have the same skill set as say an A&P tech, pilot or even a nurse. Also, you job as far as I am aware requires no certification. There is no mandatory retirement age. As I recall, some on this board have wondered how/why some of the ‘senior’ FA’s are even flying much less passing EPT’s.

On a personal note. I was on a S80 out of LAX. The pilot shut down one of the engines and we had to return to LAX after about 1/2 hr of flying. LAXFD lined up the run way but we landed with no fan fare. Had the pilot not mentioned that the engine was shut down, no one would have known anything was wrong. Two of the FA’s were shooting the chit with my wife and I for about 20 min till we were ready to land. Turns out that apparently all the blood and guts that were spread out all over the place due to the horrible accident traumatized the FA’s. They all came off with a 13. They were LAX based so no surprise there huh? Funny thing was all the passengers and the pilots went out on the replacement S80 once the new FA’s got there who were reassigned off of a FLL TC as I recall. I am sure they were quite happy about that. I am fully aware that one example does not represent your profession as most people in most professions are probably good employees. The fact that there is no standard for what constitutes a valid trauma removal does pose a few questions. I would think that if the pilots and the passengers were willing to get back on a plane after that horrific landing, I would think that FA’s who are highly trained professionals would also be willing to do so. If you want to be treated like a professional, act like one.

And yes I am fully aware that my job does not require any more of an advanced skill set than yours. Thing is I am not afraid to admit it. Are you?

 

[jimntx]

Also, if a flight attendant chooses to move into a new position within AMR (with the exception of flight service manager, although this rule changed only 18 years ago...or thereabout), I believe s/he keeps company seniority but loses the ability to reclaim his/her place on the flight attendant seniority list. I may be wrong about this. I have never had any desire to move into a management position at AMR.
Peace,
Art

Art, I believe the rule is that as long as you remain in Flight Service AND you maintain your quals, you can hold your seniority and reclaim your place on the flight line at any time. Problem is that if you become the next Lauri Curtis after 10 years in Flight Service mgt, then decide that you want to go back to flying, you can only return to your last base. If it no longer exists--a la Nashville--then you are allowed to "bump" the most junior f/a in the system wherever that base may be.

 

[Nor'Easta]

BTW, correct me if I am wrong but your job requires a GED or equivalent, 6 weeks of training which if memory serves me correctly the FAA said AA could do in 10 or 11 days when the strike happened back in the 90's. I am sure that you are not arguing that you have the same skill set as say an A&P tech, pilot or even a nurse. Also, you job as far as I am aware requires no certification. There is no mandatory retirement age. As I recall, some on this board have wondered how/why some of the ‘senior’ FA’s are even flying much less passing EPT’s.

If you want to be treated like a professional, act like one.

And yes I am fully aware that my job does not require any more of an advanced skill set than yours. Thing is I am not afraid to admit it. Are you?

Hmm, lets see here. Like myself and probably the majority of flight attendants at AA have a 4 year degree. I fly very low hours because, I actually use my 4 year degree doing something else. Yes, our job is required now to have an FAA Certification, unlike your job.

Im glad those f/a's walked off your LAX flt and I wish more did it. Its called payback to your department.

You should act before you speak about being a professional.

 

[nbmcg01]

And mbm is concerned about me? lol. You actually think I would want to go to Flt Svcs? I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. As entertaining as it would be to play in your sand box, given that Flt svcs seems to be in bed with the APFA it is not my cup of tea to be a yes man for the APFA. If they ever grow a set I might reconsider.

BTW, correct me if I am wrong but your job requires a GED or equivalent, 6 weeks of training which if memory serves me correctly the FAA said AA could do in 10 or 11 days when the strike happened back in the 90's. I am sure that you are not arguing that you have the same skill set as say an A&P tech, pilot or even a nurse. Also, you job as far as I am aware requires no certification. There is no mandatory retirement age. As I recall, some on this board have wondered how/why some of the ‘senior’ FA’s are even flying much less passing EPT’s.

On a personal note. I was on a S80 out of LAX. The pilot shut down one of the engines and we had to return to LAX after about 1/2 hr of flying. LAXFD lined up the run way but we landed with no fan fare. Had the pilot not mentioned that the engine was shut down, no one would have known anything was wrong. Two of the FA’s were shooting the chit with my wife and I for about 20 min till we were ready to land. Turns out that apparently all the blood and guts that were spread out all over the place due to the horrible accident traumatized the FA’s. They all came off with a 13. They were LAX based so no surprise there huh? Funny thing was all the passengers and the pilots went out on the replacement S80 once the new FA’s got there who were reassigned off of a FLL TC as I recall. I am sure they were quite happy about that. I am fully aware that one example does not represent your profession as most people in most professions are probably good employees. The fact that there is no standard for what constitutes a valid trauma removal does pose a few questions. I would think that if the pilots and the passengers were willing to get back on a plane after that horrific landing, I would think that FA’s who are highly trained professionals would also be willing to do so. If you want to be treated like a professional, act like one.

And yes I am fully aware that my job does not require any more of an advanced skill set than yours. Thing is I am not afraid to admit it. Are you?

Garfield, many jobs have minimum requirements for hiring. BUT, none are hired with the minimums. It wasn't that long ago that pilots were not required to be college graduates. It was added to narrow the field. In most corporate structures, 1 for 1 experience equals any degree requirement.

Scheduling, been there, done that. Not that hard, just a different skill set. When one knows the contract (on either side) the job is easier.

NODs. Never lost one. NEVER..lol I would not let anyone present mine because it is what I do best. I won 2 after the acquisition ( not being a union rep). Extended from an all nighter (SEA-STL) to work STL-ICT-STL. Funny thing is PVDs were awarded. I won 6 hrs @ overtime rates for my trouble. The second had to do with FMLA after my son's accident. Won it hands down.

You don't get to decide what causes trauma to another. Sorry.

 

[Garfield1966]

So you have more of an education than your job requires. So do I. What difference does that make?

Art posed the statement that his salary had not increased all that much over 22 years. Had I stayed in the same position I started out in for 22 years I doubt mine would have gone up all the much either. I moved around because I did not want to stay in an entry level job.

So let me make sure I understand you. To get back at evil crew skd you are willing:

1. to have 3 of your co-workers reassigned to have added flying (they were line holders).

2. to have the pilots have to wait an extra 2 1/2 hours (I’m sure you don’t care for them huh?)

3. to have all the passengers who help pay our salaries delayed for the same amount of time. Some of them may have missed important events.

All this to get back at us? Do you think anyone in this department even cared? I told this story and they laughed at the selfishness of the FA’s. I actually ended up missing rush hour and made it in to /F/ because 3 people in /F/ were reaccomodated. It worked out great for my wife and I.

You make it sound like we just schedule willy nilly. You have a contract. If we do not follow the contract, we get pay claimed. Anything we do to piss you off is in your contract and we are required to abide by it. Change it any way you see fit and we are obligated to abide by it. Inside the 4 walls of SOC, I have no free will. Every action is dictated by your contract.

And to think that people think I have anger issues.

 

[Garfield1966]

NODs. Never lost one. NEVER..lol I would not let anyone present mine because it is what I do best. I won 2 after the acquisition ( not being a union rep). Extended from an all nighter (SEA-STL) to work STL-ICT-STL. Funny thing is PVDs were awarded. I won 6 hrs @ overtime rates for my trouble. The second had to do with FMLA after my son's accident. Won it hands down.

You don't get to decide what causes trauma to another. Sorry.

What did PVD's have to do with extended flying?

Your self righteous BS is really getting old. You jump on my butt when I seem to have contempt for FA’s I have contempt for lots of work groups, my own included (I am equal opportunity). Yet you never even raise an computer key when people wail on management or who ever (I guess they deserve it and your group does not? Lol). Where is your concern for Nor-Estern when he sounds like he is about to fly off the deep end with is rant?

The FA’s were LAX based. Not a damn thing happened. Passengers and pilots flew (they were not LAX based). You know damn well they jumped at a paied day or 2 off for "trauma". It’s BS and you know it. That fact that you will not even admit that much is laughable. If someone would have died on board or we lost a part of the AC, go for it. I’d might have stayed on the ground also. FA’s are trained professionals and passengers have more courage than they do? Please.

I cannot remember one instance where you have admitted that someone in your profession screwed up. I cannot remember the last time you admitted that you screwed up. I had a pay claim. I have screwed up other times but was able to fix it after the fact. Try getting of your horse and admitting you and your coworkers are human. You are greedy and selfish just like the rest of us. And guess what, your sh1t stinks just as bad as mine.

 

[eolesen]

from APFA hotline dated 1-16-8:

[. . .], Mr. Arpey and his four top officers are set to receive more than $9 million in April (2008) when the next executive bonus windfall takes place for what will be the third year in a row. At today’s AMR stock price of $13.57 a share, $70 million total will go to roughly the same 800 or so senior managers who were rewarded last year and the year before; all while the rest of us are expected to continue working more hours for less pay with little rest and no food. It is time for this injustice to come to an end.

OK, but there's been nothing out of management. I didn't recall hearing it on the earnings call, either. Could it be that there won't be any bonuses paid out this year, and that the $800 is all they're getting?....

 

[Garfield1966]

To get this back on topic, if you want to make money in this company the best option seems to be to move around. If you stay in the same place (in most cases) you will go no where fast.

 

[Garfield1966]

OK, but there's been nothing out of management. I didn't recall hearing it on the earnings call, either. Could it be that there won't be any bonuses paid out this year, and that the $800 is all they're getting?....

Why do I not think the greedy bums will let that happen?

 

[nbmcg01]

What did PVD's have to do with extended flying?

Your self righteous BS is really getting old. You jump on my butt when I seem to have contempt for FA’s I have contempt for lots of work groups, my own included (I am equal opportunity). Yet you never even raise an computer key when people wail on management or who ever (I guess they deserve it and your group does not? Lol). Where is your concern for Nor-Estern when he sounds like he is about to fly off the deep end with is rant?

The FA’s were LAX based. Not a damn thing happened. Passengers and pilots flew (they were not LAX based). You know damn well they jumped at a paied day or 2 off for "trauma". It’s BS and you know it. That fact that you will not even admit that much is laughable. If someone would have died on board or we lost a part of the AC, go for it. I’d might have stayed on the ground also. FA’s are trained professionals and passengers have more courage than they do? Please.

I cannot remember one instance where you have admitted that someone in your profession screwed up. I cannot remember the last time you admitted that you screwed up. I had a pay claim. I have screwed up other times but was able to fix it after the fact. Try getting of your horse and admitting you and your coworkers are human. You are greedy and selfish just like the rest of us. And guess what, your sh1t stinks just as bad as mine.

Fussy aren't you? I address what I know, Garfield. The f/a job. I am in management. I have been in management with the airlines. I don't jump into ground, mechanic or pilot discussions because I don't question other work group's contracts. They have negotiated to meet their needs and we (as f/as) have negotiated to meet our needs. Pretty simple.

As to the PVD vs extended trip issue: If you have enough people to offer PVDs, you shouldn't need to extend anyone's trip. I won...

As for the incident, I wasn't there. I don't know the people involved. What does the base have to do with the situation? I didn't make a judgement without all of the information, so sue me.

We are human and we screw up many times but not like you would have us believe, and certainly not to the extent you've created in your mind.

I think the difference between us is I don't have contempt for your job, my old job, my present job or anyone else's job. All are necessay and all have their good and bad points. I have had many adjectives attatched to my name but greedy and selfish are not 2 of them. Advocate, driven, passionate, loyal, stubborn, smart, sometimes caustic, direct, and I'm sure my ex could add a few less complimentary but greedy and selfish just aren't there....sorry.

ps..If you think I don't address our own groups shortcomings, you must have missed my "opinions" of some of the APFA's "finest". John and his friend Jay, Sherry and her friend Greg, just to name a few. We (the f/as) have their warts and blemishes...

 

[Garfield1966]

That’s what I thought you were going to say happened. My guess is the same idiot who ruled on that NOD is the same one who told us we have extra AVBLS at the end of DEC so everything will be fine.

We have given PVDs and opened up OPT II that night. Things change and stuff happens that change the manning. Granting PVD’s in the AM has nothing do with whether or not someone get reassigned. As one example, if I have AVBL’s in who are obligated to fly but I have no trips in OT, We will grant PVD’s so that the AVBL’s will fly. That does not mean I have enough people to cover the trips on the sick list. Two separate issues and anyone who works in this department would know that. I hope there was something else that you were not aware of but my guess is it was as simple as you say and you were arguing with an idiot.

This company has way top many people making decisions on things they know nothing about. Bloody amazing how a single airplane gets off the ground.

The fact that they were home is why they came off the flight. If they were out of base like the pilots were they would have flown. Given that there was not trauma on the flight, why would someone want to stay away from home if they did not have to?