"fooled Again By Ward"

[Royal Ambassador]

I do not need to justify or explain my posts on another board to you, but for the sake of the many people that read THIS board, I am replying. . .

*********** [Moderator Note - DO NOT "OUT" ANYONE OR YOU WILL BE SUSPENDED FROM POSTING HERE]
I thought that you were too busy attending college to have been posting on the 4M. Isn't that what you claimed just a few days ago?

By the way, your posting style has changed considerably since last week, did you hire a ghost writer?

As to whether I am an AA flight attendant or not, only those who need to know do.

 

[L1011Ret]

Sky, what does TWA's financial condition have to do with the Ward issues? I am aware some AAers feel stapling was justified because TWA was a failing carrier. However, Reno F/As were stapled and Reno was not a failing carrier. So that argument would not pass muster in court.

 

[endorfun]

Yes, TWA was losing money for all the reasons you mentioned. Perhaps, that is why AA required TW to declare bankruptcy as a condition of the aquisition. Suddenly, the balnce sheet changed, and TW didn't look so bad. Now.....let's see...Aircraft leases renegotiated at current AA rates, work rules amended to mirror AA's, Fuel costs at AA rates, substantial yeild enhancement secondary to elimination of Karabu (on the TW side), yeild enhancement and/or cost reduction as route structures are synergized i.e. less competition on certain routes and/or greater frequencies, and let's not forget to factor in AA's take on the sale of Worldspan as well as the monies recieved from the Feds for TW's contibution for ASm's after 911. And one more thing......I think some of those routes, airplanes, gates, slots and facilities might have come along with some passengers. hmmmm.

 

[TWAnr]

I do not need to justify or explain my posts on another board to you, but for the sake of the many people that read THIS board, I am replying. . .

The mention of your messages from the other board, the ones which you tried to claim that you were too busy to post, was intended to expose your hypocrisy.

You are the one who is accusing the TWAers of being bitter and vindictive over here while at the same time your pontifications on the supposedly private 4M boards are rife with bitterness and derision.

 

[skyangelnflight]

Sky, what does TWA's financial condition have to do with the Ward issues? I am aware some AAers feel stapling was justified because TWA was a failing carrier. However, Reno F/As were stapled and Reno was not a failing carrier. So that argument would not pass muster in court.

I was respoding, in part, to TWA's comment:

Perhaps you should pay more attention in your college classes. 6,000 of 28,000 is roughly 21%. Without the furlough cushion that you enjoyed, AA would have furloughed approximately 4,800 of the 24,000 nAAtive population, give or take a few hundred.

My question to you is, what does my posts on the 4m have anything to do with the John Ward issue. TWA has gone out of their way to make me look like a liar. I have and will continue to stay above that level.

I don't know why anyone else comes to the decisions they do. TWA's financial condition was not a reason, for me, to not want slotting. For me, I was glad to see them get pay, vacation, retirment, senoirity. And even though the argument has gone on and on that the TWA people were not so senior that slotting would hurt anyone, they are all senior enough for it to cost me 4,000 positions. I would not agree to that.

After all is said and done this horse has been beat to ground, and ground to dust. It is not my intent to change anyone's mind, most people involved in this have committed to their postitions, that includes me, it was my intent to clear up the charges made against me, and share why I think the way I do.

 

[skyangelnflight]

*****,

I thought that you were too busy attending college to have been posting on the 4M. Isn't that what you claimed just a few days ago?

By the way, your posting style has changed considerably since last week, did you hire a ghost writer?

As to whether I am an AA flight attendant or not, only those who need to know do.

I'm willing to engage in meaningful debate, the 4m allegations are beneath that.
I'm not a liar.

I have not hired a ghost writer, but thanks for the compliment

 

[MiAAmi]

Skyangelnflight,

Almost everyone that claims to be from TWA on this board attacks and makes up stories to discredit opposing views. There is no need to defend yourself when we all know the tactics of the few TW'ers on this board. The fact that they try to smear you shows what credibility they have. I enjoy your posts and hope to keep reading them.

 

[jsn25911]

Skyangelnflight,

Almost everyone that claims to be from TWA on this board attacks and makes up stories to discredit opposing views. There is no need to defend yourself when we all know the tactics of the few TW'ers on this board. The fact that they try to smear you shows what credibility they have. I enjoy your posts and hope to keep reading them.

Miami - you made me laugh - it sounded like you were describing yourself.

The only person that we have said that lied was Ward himself.

Since you are so behind Ward - why don't you encourage him to the debate - I bet he is chicken! Email him and ask him to debate Tommy - Why not? Or is it that he doesn't want to answer to the issues of the lies about what he has done to this membership. Encourage your man to step up to the plate rather than hide from the membership!

 

[twasilverbullet]

miaami,
We are here to state the truth, unlike you and your cronies.

 

[MiAAmi]

There is nothing to debate now that everyone knows that the TW people voted for Tommy. Everyone on the line is now voting for Ward. Even people that voiced opposition towards Ward are now voting for him because they see that the TW'ers voted for Tommy. Tommy is now dead in the water thanks to you all (TWA'ers)

 

[FA Mikey]

Sorry but everyone I know is voting for Tommie, once they know the truth is an easy choice.

 

[TWAnr]

I'm willing to engage in meaningful debate, the 4m allegations are beneath that.
I'm not a liar.

These are some your posts there, Skyangel, aren't these?

Date: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:53 pm
Subject: seriously "done".

Oh, give me a break!

I find it amazing how liberals dump on conservatives for "word tactics"
and conservatives dump on liberals, for the same word game,
yet no matter how much one yells "they have the high road"
when it comes to justifying what they want for themselves
they use the same game!

Does anyone else not see there will be more f/a's ahead of me taking my recall
slot, my trip bids, my vacation days, etc. etc. etc., does she really believe
her own spin?

what it really boils down to, is she wants what is mine but wants to spin it so
us "blondes" will not realize she is taking what is mine, she is actually only
taking what doesn't belong to anyone, it is just sitting in cyberspace. . . .

don't you see you "blonde AA f/a" bringing 5,000+ f/a's with 20 year plus
senority won't hurt you. . .even tho they will all be bumped in ahead of you,
you will still be the same junior you always were. . .why don't you just relax,
focus on the little watch as it swings on the chain back and forth, back and
forth, you are getting sleepy, your eyelids are getting heavy, . . . .

as far as I am concerned, you are seriously done. . .and your senority for pay,
vacations and retirment were more than fair, but don't try to b** sh** me with
the number spin. I am more senior to you, and hope and pray to stay that way.
The next recall will be mine, not 3000 ex-TWA'ers. . .you will have to wait your
turn.

Nothing personal, what is mine is mine and I am not giving it away.

*********

From: "skyangelnflight"
Date: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:10 pm
Subject: Re: Fw: [AAStewPot] To *****, ORD-please send it to 4m

>The same type of examples that a responsible Union would have
been sent with the seniority survey that no one can seem to
find,or produce the survey results.

So you think if you had written up a paper that explained your
concept the AA/FA's would have said, "ohhhh, now I understand, slot
those TWA flight attendants ahead of us". . . Your dreaming. There
is nothing that could be written in any way that I would have voted
to have one person slotted ahead of me. Senority is everything.


>What you have chosen to disregard are the routes and
planes that came with the purchase agreement(which were more than
enough to "cover" our work force).

If there were more than enough to cover your work force, why are all
of you out on furlough?


>The reality is you shouldn't have been furloughed in the first
place

The reality is we are furloughed. . .and recall is by senority


>Trip bids, its always a crapshoot.

Not if your senior


>so I bid to fly turns, short layover if necessary, and get off
the plane and go home.

prove my point, those are the trips I bid, I commute, I want to do my
time in a hurry and go home. So now more people competing for what
you want to shrug off as "no one wants"
spin, spin, spin, you weave your story, but you don't discuss the
facts. FACT: All TWA are furloughed, a lot of AA are furloughed, even one
person slotted ahead of me is one person called back ahead of me, and
that is one person too many.


>I much prefer working behind the scenes and in areas like
contract negotiation preparation

now that is a scary thought. . .
I'm not getting sucked into this back and forth. There will be no
more replys to your stew pot posts from the 4m forum from me.

*******

Date: Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: To *********, please send it to 4m

Doug,
sometimes your spitting in the wind. . .
do you really think they will ever quit pissin and moanin
until they get full senority?

I don't. . .

hugs,
*******

Date: Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:07 pm
Subject: don't throw me into that briar patch


Wouldn't it put pressure on if the assets were sold without
employees? How is it putting pressure on a group if they
are going to a company that is not in bankruptcy, and has
retirment,
still,
at the moment of this post, . . . .
anyway, they don't have anything except the threat of
no job and no retirment right now.

It seems to me if they were truly doing this as a move to put
pressure on the work group for a contract, they would threaten
sale of assets with no crews being part of it. That would be a threat,
not moving into American Airlines with senority. . .

I can hear US Air crews now. . .
"Roast me if you want, Brer Fox," said Brer Rabbit, "but please don't throw me
into that briar patch." . . .

NOT

**********

You are not quite as lovable as you would like everyone to think you are.

 

[jsn25911]

There is nothing to debate now that everyone knows that the TW people voted for Tommy. Everyone on the line is now voting for Ward. Even people that voiced opposition towards Ward are now voting for him because they see that the TW'ers voted for Tommy. Tommy is now dead in the water thanks to you all (TWA'ers)

So Miami - are you saying this election is based on "who hates the TWA people" as opposed to "the TWA" people." Why would anyone vote an election on "hating the TWA people" when their working conditions are so horrible, not enough rest, no food, etc........ If that is what this election is about - than I hope you DO get Ward....I wish wart on you. If the membership is not interested in improving this career - improve the working conditions, then they are the ones destroying their careers - not mine!

 

[MiAAmi]

So Miami - are you saying this election is based on "who hates the TWA people" as opposed to "the TWA" people." Why would anyone vote an election on "hating the TWA people" when their working conditions are so horrible, not enough rest, no food, etc........ If that is what this election is about - than I hope you DO get Ward....I wish wart on you. If the membership is not interested in improving this career - improve the working conditions, then they are the ones destroying their careers - not mine!

My working conditions are not horrible. Yes things have plenty of room for improvement but I don't dread going to work. The risk of giving anything to the TWA'ers thru Tommy is worth the chance with Ward in my opinion. Having Ward as our leader durning the next round is more important to me than what happened last year. If people vote against Tommy because of the association with TWA then I would have to guess that all the bashing of AA and APFA has come back to haunt you.

 

[L1011Ret]

How many times does it take to get some AAers to read the court brief and see this is not about JW or THB? It is posted here somewhere in the last several days. See for yourselves...