Gas Prices -- the Cause

[Cosworth]

Repeat after me.....I am not a socialist....I am not a socialist....

Popular stigmas do not matter to me. Some of my beliefs are socialist, some are liberal, some are conservative and every now and then I get so ticked off that I go fascist (but come to my senses soon there after).

I believe that as a society, as a nation and as a world, we have a responsibility to each other. I try and live my life according to the golden rule. Yes I know there are those out there who cannot be helped or chose not to be helped. There are also those out there who believe that it is not their responsibility to help those around them. The members of the latter usually change their mind quite quickly when it is they who need help. Children (much less anyone else) should not go with out food or shelter, medical care ...etc.

Call it what ever you want. I care not.

 

[delldude]

There's lots of resources out there if you're searching for employment.....good luck.

 

[cooper43]

Fed up with what? Opportunity?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the "have nots". Anyone can go to school or learn a trade.

there were many in the late 80's who lost their manufacturing jobs at places like auto plants and they retrained in the IT industry only to have the dot com. Many of those jobs went off shore. I am not saying people should be taken care of with no personal responsibility, I am saying that as our economy changes part of our tax dollars should be spent back on the people and help them pay for school. It is not impossible to do now, but it could be easier. I changed careers at 30. I started college at 30 and finished with a bachelors degree 5 yrs later. However now I have about $40,000 in school loan debt. I should not have to run up a bill that high just to get an education. Also I consider myself one of the lucky ones. Many people can not afford to take the time off from working their 2 or 3 jobs with no benefits to go to school. So NO, not everyone can got to school. You are naive, or you choose to see what you want to see. I wonder why some are so opposed to my tax dollars for the benefit of all. Statistics show that the more people we have in the middle class the larger the tax base will be, also we will have lower crime. Those who are so indignant to the suffering of others may find them selves spending more money holding on to what they have. As more people fall into the have not category the more they resort to stealing from those who have. This is what brings on revolution. Chances are that if you are chatting on this board you are only a few missed pay days away from being in the have not category.

 

[JS]

there were many in the late 80's who lost their manufacturing jobs at places like auto plants and they retrained in the IT industry only to have the dot com. Many of those jobs went off shore. I am not saying people should be taken care of with no personal responsibility, I am saying that as our economy changes part of our tax dollars should be spent back on the people and help them pay for school. It is not impossible to do now, but it could be easier. I changed careers at 30. I started college at 30 and finished with a bachelors degree 5 yrs later. However now I have about $40,000 in school loan debt. I should not have to run up a bill that high just to get an education. Also I consider myself one of the lucky ones. Many people can not afford to take the time off from working their 2 or 3 jobs with no benefits to go to school. So NO, not everyone can got to school. You are naive, or you choose to see what you want to see. I wonder why some are so opposed to my tax dollars for the benefit of all. Statistics show that the more people we have in the middle class the larger the tax base will be, also we will have lower crime. Those who are so indignant to the suffering of others may find them selves spending more money holding on to what they have. As more people fall into the have not category the more they resort to stealing from those who have. This is what brings on revolution. Chances are that if you are chatting on this board you are only a few missed pay days away from being in the have not category.

Poor people get free tuition at a number of schools. I had $25,000 of student loans that I paid off a few years after I graduated. My earnings with an education over what I would have earned without one have been far more than $25,000, so it's a net gain to me.

BTW I am in the "have not" category at the moment (and several paychecks into it), thanks to my greedy ex-wife and the socialist leanings of Family Court. I filed for bankruptcy, I owe the IRS $15,000, and my car will be repossessed if I don't park it in the garage, so I do know what it's like to be poor (and I was when I was going to school as well). I had to raid the change jar recently to buy a 1.5" binder for one of my children because their mother has higher priorities such as hair dye.

 

[Bobbie]

College is already free for those who need it. They just have to go through the process of applying for it and getting it. Those who are best at following through with the process get a greater percentage of their college paid. Often, those people get in excess of 100% of their tuitions costs. Many get living expenses paid as well.

The programs vary depending on whether you're on federal, state, or private aid. Some states provide free tuition for high school students who make a certain grade point ratio or higher.

Most people I see have a combination of federal, state, and private scholarships and grants and they end up covering more than what they needed, enough to pay rent in many cases.

Now, if your income is above that level (and that level varies based on several factors), you qualify for student loans. Depending on the career you want to go into (teacher, teacher, teacher or military, military, military), those loans can be paid off by someone other than you.

The argument always comes up that "They said I made too much money, so we didn't get anything." This most often happens when the parents' or students' income are ample to cover the cost of college but for whatever reason (massive debt, usually) they cannot afford school. This makes competent financial planning a must for any parent or student planning on going to school. That $2000 a month they're paying on credit cards, cars, boats, or whatever could be used to pay for little Sally Sue to go to college. In that instance, it's the parents decision not to pay for their kid's school.

If you're a kid in that position (with rich, broke parents) you can get student loans (federally subsidized) until you're emancipated from your parents, at which time you would qualify for grants and aid based on your newly reduced family income.

If you need financial aid and don't get it, that's your choice. Just follow through with the entire process and you'll get it paid for.

 

[Cosworth]

I find it interesting that oil has dropped to below $120 yet as far as I have read, demand has not dropped enough to explain the drop in the price. No new refineries have opened, no new field s have been discovered. America did drive 12 billion fewer miles (only 4% or 5% drop IIRC).

Seems like a good argument for price manipulation too me.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

I find it interesting that oil has dropped to below $120 yet as far as I have read, demand has not dropped enough to explain the drop in the price. No new refineries have opened, no new field s have been discovered. America did drive 12 billion fewer miles (only 4% or 5% drop IIRC).

Seems like a good argument for price manipulation too me.

It is still a supply/demand scenario... just not necessarily the type that you are thinking about. Oil is a commodity that is traded in commodity markets around the globe... and now even by some pimply faced kids in front of a computer screen. The price is set by market forces... or, in essence, by what the traders believe are the current and future market forces. As I noted in another thread, they anticipate fluctuations in consumer supply and demand as well as market trading supply and demand by traders that will never actually receive shipment of oil. They buy on a mouse's whisper of a potential terrorist strike in Nigeria. So, to your point, they also anticipate whether traders will purchase more oil contracts, thereby increasing the demand of the product beyond the demand by purchasers who will eventually turn it over to consumers. Some traders may purchase large quantities in nicely timed increments to drive up the price just to turn around and sell it for pennies on the dollar in a short time frame. Some may see that as gaming the system, and likely some have actually gamed the system.

 

[Bobbie]

Refining capacity in this country is increasing and you can look no further than the new Motiva Refinery in Port Arthur, Texas to see that. Motiva is a joint venture between Royal Dutch Shell and Saudi Aramco and produces fuel for Shell, among others.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid. They're not building "new" refineries alright...they're building new "units" on existing sites. In Port Arthur, you had a small refinery on site. They build a gigantic, separate, new refinery on the same site and they call it an "upgrade." This is so that they can avoid the appearance of us making further investments in fossil fuel use...but we are. We wouldn't be driving had it not been for similar projects over the years.

We've got new refineries coming on line. Don't let the government's "no new refineries built since 1970-something" fool you. We've got the capacity and are building it. Make no mistake about it.

http://www.motivaexpansionproject.com/

 

[Pain at the Pump]

Poor people get free tuition at a number of schools. I had $25,000 of student loans that I paid off a few years after I graduated. My earnings with an education over what I would have earned without one have been far more than $25,000, so it's a net gain to me.

BTW I am in the "have not" category at the moment (and several paychecks into it), thanks to my greedy ex-wife and the socialist leanings of Family Court. I filed for bankruptcy, I owe the IRS $15,000, and my car will be repossessed if I don't park it in the garage, so I do know what it's like to be poor (and I was when I was going to school as well). I had to raid the change jar recently to buy a 1.5" binder for one of my children because their mother has higher priorities such as hair dye.

(Mr.) J S,

It's always sad, when a family goes through a divorce, Emotions(all around) run exceptionally High, and I'm pretty confident that you'd agree.

To Declare family courts are "socialist leaning" are an Inaccuracy, driven in your case BY Emotion !

Your statement does a mis service to Thousands of family court people who go to work everyday across the land to try to make a bad situation a bit better for all concerned.

I dare say that "socialist leaning" family court judges would be a rare find in Utah, or Wyoming, so i'm sure you see that painting folks with a "broad brush" is fool hearty.

I wish you well !

 

[Tug McGroin]

Refining capacity in this country is increasing and you can look no further than the new Motiva Refinery in Port Arthur, Texas to see that. Motiva is a joint venture between Royal Dutch Shell and Saudi Aramco and produces fuel for Shell, among others.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid. They're not building "new" refineries alright...they're building new "units" on existing sites. In Port Arthur, you had a small refinery on site. They build a gigantic, separate, new refinery on the same site and they call it an "upgrade." This is so that they can avoid the appearance of us making further investments in fossil fuel use...but we are. We wouldn't be driving had it not been for similar projects over the years.

We've got new refineries coming on line. Don't let the government's "no new refineries built since 1970-something" fool you. We've got the capacity and are building it. Make no mistake about it.

http://www.motivaexpansionproject.com/

To compliment the increased capacity of the Motiva facility and other oil refineries along the Texas coast, Teppco Partners LP and Oiltanking Holding America have formed a joint venture called the Texas Offshore Port System (TOPS).

TOPS will consist of an offshore port 36 miles from Freeport, Texas with two, single-point mooring buoys capable of offloading 100,000 barrels per hour. TOPS would be able to accommodate ultra large crude carriers (ULCCs) transporting as much as 3 million bbl of crude.

http://www.ogj.com/display_article/337261/...re-port-system/

 

[Bobbie]

I know, right? And how about these folks who act like we're going to run out of oil if we don't drill in the Alaskan Natural Wildlife Refuge. So we really need to drill in ANWR? I assure you, with the market forces in play right now, if ANWR really had billions of barrels of oil and it could be done at a cheap price, the oil companies would have already been in there...do you really think that the Bush administration would have interfered? Please....people are so easily manipulated.

I assure you that us not drilling in ANWR has more to do with making the Democratic party look like idiots than about environmental activism. They say things like "We're sitting on all this oil, but those environmentalists won't let us drill there, so our gas prices are high" and "we just want an up or down vote." We all know full-well that it's not currently worth us drilling there. We have plentiful oil elsewhere.

Despite all of this anti-wildlife refuge drilling sentiment going around, they've had no problems drilling in dozens (if not hundreds) of other federally protected lands. The Gulf National seashore is one...various bird migratory refuges, etc. This whole thing with ANWR is about politics. NOTHING stops an oil company from drilling where they want to....NOTHING. If there's an embargo...they'll get a foreign subsidiary...if there's a wildlife refuge, they get the permits and do it.

The oil companies go where their geophysicists tell them to...and they've got the money for top-notch people so I assume they know what they're doing. Oil companies don't spend billions of dollars investing in new oilfields on the "promise" of oil. They go where it's at and they know where it's at. It's scientific.

Oil and natural gas drilling is a remarkably clean operation compared to other things we do every day. The oil is far more likely to have an environmental impact when it's being TRANSPORTED than when it's being drilled.

 

[cooper43]

Poor people get free tuition at a number of schools. I had $25,000 of student loans that I paid off a few years after I graduated. My earnings with an education over what I would have earned without one have been far more than $25,000, so it's a net gain to me.

BTW I am in the "have not" category at the moment (and several paychecks into it), thanks to my greedy ex-wife and the socialist leanings of Family Court. I filed for bankruptcy, I owe the IRS $15,000, and my car will be repossessed if I don't park it in the garage, so I do know what it's like to be poor (and I was when I was going to school as well). I had to raid the change jar recently to buy a 1.5" binder for one of my children because their mother has higher priorities such as hair dye.

Bush has on at least 2 occassions cut the education budget for government backed student LOANS. This is not even free money but he reduced the amount. When I decided to go to college at the age of 30, I made just over the poverty line so that all I qualified for was student loans. If it had not been for those student loans I would not have graduated. Why cut the amount of student loans that are backed by the government? doesn't make sense. Under the Bush administration it seems to me that most every area in our economy is suffering (at one point or another).

JS, I do not understand why you would be against programs that help tax payers get back on thier feet when they have some life event that throws them for a loop. We are human and we should want to help our neighbors. I am not saying I believe in supporting those who will not help themselves but there is a difference between that and helping people who have fallen on hard times to retrain and get back to paying taxes. The only way to have a strong economy and a balanced budget is to increase the size of the middle class because they are the ones paying most of the taxes. Clinton understood this IMHO. Bush and I believe McCain also, only want to dish out tax breaks and quid pro quo (sp?) favors for his wall street buddies. Halliburton?

 

[cooper43]

I know, right? And how about these folks who act like we're going to run out of oil if we don't drill in the Alaskan Natural Wildlife Refuge. So we really need to drill in ANWR? I assure you, with the market forces in play right now, if ANWR really had billions of barrels of oil and it could be done at a cheap price, the oil companies would have already been in there...do you really think that the Bush administration would have interfered? Please....people are so easily manipulated.

Wow did I read that right? you and I are on the same side for once? I have said before that this issue of drilling is nothing but a vote getter for the republicans. Because most simple minded folks (which I call red neck republicans) are easily manipulated. If they wanted to drill they would have already done so. Drilling is just another issue to divide and concur (sp). Just like gay marriage or abortion. The republicans could care less and actually the oil companies are making more money keeping the supply of oil tight. Why would they want to put more on the market so the price goes down? NOT.

 

[Tug McGroin]

Wow did I read that right? you and I are on the same side for once? I have said before that this issue of drilling is nothing but a vote getter for the republicans. Because most simple minded folks (which I call red neck republicans) are easily manipulated. If they wanted to drill they would have already done so. Drilling is just another issue to divide and concur (sp). Just like gay marriage or abortion. The republicans could care less and actually the oil companies are making more money keeping the supply of oil tight. Why would they want to put more on the market so the price goes down? NOT.

This simple minded, manipulated, red neck Republican needs to understand how evil oil companies keep tight control of foreign oil supplies. Furthermore, tell me how it is that oil companies have free rein to drill wherever they please. Please, do tell!

 

[cooper43]

This simple minded, manipulated, red neck Republican needs to understand how evil oil companies keep tight control of foreign oil supplies. Furthermore, tell me how it is that oil companies have free rein to drill wherever they please. Please, do tell!

Common sense: They have millions acres under lease and with oil at $150 a barrel they did not try to drill so they must not want to expand supply that bad. As long as the supply is tight (which I do believe it has been but demand is slowing) and they can get $150 or about that then why would they want to mess with that formula? We can see that when the prices reach a certain point people use less and therefore prices go down. They do not need to control foreign oil supplies (allthough they tried when they went into Iraq) If they have control of just 10%, that is enough to have influence over supply. The saving grace for us as citizens is the demand question. If we continue to reduce the amount of oil we use then their control over prices at the pump are deminished. If we redirect our tax dollars to new fuel sources instead of tax credits or breaks for oil companies then we can continue to reduce our dependence on oil, it really doesn't matter if it is foreign or domestic because the oil that is pumped here domesticly is sold on the international market.