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Gonna Make It...yes Or No

skycruiser said:
"Folks who are less apt to make declarative statements are less likely to look foolish into retrospect"

People are always declaring that the hub and spoke model is broken and they better change quickly. First I am curious as to what you are basing this statement on and were did you get your data or research, your opinion aside, to make such a statement. LLC have a completely different business model than the international carriers. The cost of maintaining the network at Northwest is not cheap but the payoff is that, unlike Jet Blue, you can book from Aberdeen, SD to Tokyo. Jet Blue does not operate an aircraft that can service ABR and turn a profit and obviously cannot get you to NRT. The other thing to remember that, unlike Jet Blue, Northwest can get passengers into their networks from virtually anywhere in the world through their Sky Team affiliation. Secondly the only true point to point carrier is Southwest the other LLC (Jet Blue out of JFK, AirTran out of ATL, America West PHX/LAS) all are hub and spoke. So how can the hub and Spoke concept be that flawed if everyone is using it aside from SWA?
[post="234394"][/post]​



Everything you say is true. The problem is Americans are not willing to subsidize service to medium and small cities. The Southwests and JetBlue's are cherry pickers that don't give a rat's pettudy about a transportation "system" but only providing service to markets that are high density and can make a lot of money quickly. The problem comes in that they have established a mindset in the American public as to the cost of flying.

What I'd like to see is small and medium cities get their air service stopped, or if served at all, pay the full cost, plus profit of providing that service. These customers would really be in for a shock then.

RJ's that service some of those cities are very high cost operations. Many of these RJ outfits appear to be making profits, but in reality they are subsidized by the mainline companies under "fee for departure" schemes where they are paid a set fee that guarantees them a profit whether or not the airplane is empty or full. Further they don't pay for a lot of the support functions of ticketing etc.

If the American public wants it cheap, then a lot of places are not going to get air service, or if they do, it's going to be infrequent and VERY expensive. If they want a transportation system of JetBlew's, then that's what they'll get.

The legacy carriers by their models are wed to the hub and spoke systems and seem to be unwilling or unable to change. I think most are hoping for fuel to come down to reasonable levels, which is isn't going to do. Ticket prices HAVE to go up and they will eventually . . . . . . but the weakling companies with bad management like US Air, UAL, Independence, and ATA need to be allowed to implode on their own accord rather than prop them up with court ordered contract abrogations, endless chapter 11 episodes, and government loans. I know this is harsh, but the American economy, despite the apparent stock market rise, is in deep deep and fundamental trouble. I can see foresee several scenarios where using extrodinary measure to prop up terribly managed companies will only continue to destroy the rest of the reasonably well-managed companies. Why should US Airways get serial attempts at reorganization and jipping creditors when it's apparent to the most casual observer that it's management is fundamentally flawed and feable.
 
As silly as it may sound now, I think the next successful airline is going to be owned by Wal-Mart. They have a ton of capital, they treat their employees well and people flock to them like migrating birds for everything. So why not air travel?

U's management team never got a clue that you can't treat your employees like less than dog crap and expect them to be loyal or take a paycut that cuts them right out of feeding their families, while management enjoys parties on the North Carolina Riviera and bonuses just for breathing.

The public always had an inkling that U was screwed up and last weekend proved that point in no uncertain terms. Trying to prove that U is a great airline now is like trying to sell real estate in Antarctica. It's not going to happen. :angry:
 
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
Look people! Even the rats and roaches have already got in their lifeboats and left the ship. I would suggest you start looking for yours! Every day that USAIR stays in business is another day of suffering for it's workers! I think a "mercy killing" would be justified in this situation. Load torpedo tubes #1 and #2, FIRE 1!, FIRE 2! Torpedos Away! KA-BOOOOOOOMMMM!
[post="234367"][/post]​

I think Aladin is showing on Nickelodeon. How about taking your Avatar and your opinion and going and playing over there for a while. :down:

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW
 
Hey Lazyrusman, Did I strike a nerve? I'm sorry that the end is near for U.S. Air, but your airline has been taking on water for years. Your company and employees along with the Evil TWU here at AA has dragged almost all other Airline industry employees into an AAbyss that can not be escaped. You people should have struck over two years ago, but you voted yes,just like the TWU sheep over here at AA, and the rest is history! You gave and gave and gave and then gave some more! Are you working for free this weekend? Let me give you a history lesson. Back in 1989, Braniff employees were asked to work two weeks after another bankruptcy filling had shut them down. Guess what? There were dummies like you worked those two weeks for free just to save the company. Guess what? It didn't save the company either! 😀
 
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
Hey Lazyrusman, Did I strike a nerve? I'm sorry that the end is near for U.S. Air, but your airline has been taking on water for years. Your company and employees along with the Evil TWU here at AA has dragged almost all other Airline industry employees into an AAbyss that can not be escaped. You people should have struck over two years ago, but you voted yes,just like the TWU sheep over here at AA, and the rest is history! You gave and gave and gave and then gave some more! Are you working for free this weekend? Let me give you a history lesson. Back in 1989, Braniff employees were asked to work two weeks after another bankruptcy filling had shut them down. Guess what? There were dummies like you worked those two weeks for free just to save the company. Guess what? It didn't save the company either! 😀
[post="234469"][/post]​

Ok; yeah, you did strike a nerve. What, did you think I'd be too proud to admit it? Damm!!! What's with the Kaboom comment? Yeah, you struck a nerve; LOL!!! And you just struck another one when you called me Lazyrusman. Lazy? Lazy? Hey, you been watching me work? LOL!!! It's LAZARUSMAN!!! As far as 2 years ago goes, I don't remember getting a chance to vote on anything. The union works like that sometimes. I don't remember there ever being any talk of a strike vote. I just remember the announcement of the paycut, and then everybody started doing the Dance Of The Sugar Plum Fairies. Oh, and as far as dummies like me, please don't say me. I'm not one of the me. If I am ever one of the me it is not by choice; unless we're talking about free food, free booze (but that's only on occassion cause I'm not a big drinker), free money, or free you know what. So I don't need to know about AA's TWU Sheep, or the idiots at Braniff (I work with them at USAirways too), or any of that. I don't really mind hearing how we at USAirways are probably doomed. I just took offense at the Fire Torpedos, Kaboom!!!! comment. Do you blame me?

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW
 
TheLazarusman said:
I just took offense at the Fire Torpedos, Kaboom!!!! comment. Do you blame me?

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW
[post="234471"][/post]​
I don't blame you, but can not understand why that would upset you? Probably the fact you are sitting on a time bomb knowing the fuse is short and the fact you are 'still" there, then it makes sense getting upset.....

He is right about Braniff. A mechanic friend of mine, and I mentioned this before on the boards, he worked for free for several weeks and if that's not bad enough, he even put in OT to "help" out. He never received a dime for almost a months work that ended up being donated.


History does show us what the future holds therefore U's future is bleak very bleak, and I think you know this and why that cord was struck.


No one should be subject to what the U employees have endured with no end in sight, it's not right, it's not fair, it’s just the reality being part of U as U’s era slowly and painfully ends for everyone still attached.

Good Luck my Friend

Curt
 
Its all up to the employees. If we believe we can make it...we will!

The passengers will come back.

Everything is price driven. Lower fares, give out some perks...and boom, we are back in business.
 
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
Hey Lazyrusman, Did I strike a nerve? I'm sorry that the end is near for U.S. Air, but your airline has been taking on water for years. Your company and employees along with the Evil TWU here at AA has dragged almost all other Airline industry employees into an AAbyss that can not be escaped. You people should have struck over two years ago, but you voted yes,just like the TWU sheep over here at AA, and the rest is history! You gave and gave and gave and then gave some more! Are you working for free this weekend? Let me give you a history lesson. Back in 1989, Braniff employees were asked to work two weeks after another bankruptcy filling had shut them down. Guess what? There were dummies like you worked those two weeks for free just to save the company. Guess what? It didn't save the company either! 😀
[post="234469"][/post]​
My 3 wishes from the Genie????? GO AWAY ALREADY
 
savyinvestor said:
Too much damage done to the employees and the customers. Customers will shy away and employee morale is as low as it gets. I'm afraid its over. My guess 30-45 days at the most. 🙁 Savy
[post="234314"][/post]​


I think you've hit it dead on. Too much damage done for anything short of "Deus ex machina" to allow a meaningful recovery.

The only way any airline will prosper right now is to have a leader who: 1) is an airline person, and 2.) has a passion for RUNNING a good airline. But even if the Lakefields, Bronners, Wolfs, Schofields, etc. were to craw back under their rocks and USAirways were to get a real, honest-to-goodness airline leader, I still think it's too late for this operation.
 
Thats right NYC.....And get a new marketing Dept for Gods sake!!!
Get rid of that stupid freak Seth the Go Fares guy and find a great campaign!!
What an embarrasment!!!!!!!!!!!
 
What's killing UAIR is management that like some people makes mistakes, stands by them unconditionally, and absolutely refuses to go back to past ways out of complete narcism and arrogance. This is a sure recipe for disaster. A dog that comes back with its tail between its legs is a dog that has love and will be loved. I feel UAIR is now a dead dumb dog.
 
Let’s face it. USAirways has already died. The only thing left of a great company is the hollow name.

Several years ago I posted a picture of the A330 painted in Express colors when people were tripping over themselves to give away their contract.

Tell me that there aren’t “regionalâ€￾ outfits that have it better than US Airways.
 
Phoenix said:
Let’s face it. USAirways has already died. The only thing left of a great company is the hollow name.

Several years ago I posted a picture of the A330 painted in Express colors when people were tripping over themselves to give away their contract.

Tell me that there aren’t “regionalâ€￾ outfits that have it better than US Airways.
[post="234791"][/post]​

How about this picture to get the "blue" blood flowing? But if it were to happen, please...please...please...let's get an influx of new management in here first.

Good luck and God Bless to all of you and your families.

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW
 
"As silly as it may sound now, I think the next successful airline is going to be owned by Wal-Mart. They have a ton of capital, they treat their employees well and people flock to them like migrating birds for everything. So why not air travel?"

I don't mean to demean, but I had to laugh when I read this. Wal-Mart that has a very strong history of FORCING employees to work off the clock for no pay. They are probably one of the most anti-union companies in the world. Also, their travel policies require employees at the VP level to share rooms when on the road. I can imagine how well that would go over with the flight crews!
 
Armada said:
"As silly as it may sound now, I think the next successful airline is going to be owned by Wal-Mart. They have a ton of capital, they treat their employees well and people flock to them like migrating birds for everything. So why not air travel?"

I don't mean to demean, but I had to laugh when I read this. Wal-Mart that has a very strong history of FORCING employees to work off the clock for no pay. They are probably one of the most anti-union companies in the world. Also, their travel policies require employees at the VP level to share rooms when on the road. I can imagine how well that would go over with the flight crews!
[post="234862"][/post]​

It's been nationally reported that the Walton daughter paid other students to do her schoolwork while at USC. I wonder if they got health benefits and pensions . . . . . along with the under-the-table money. :down:

Let's see Walmart-Air. Since Walmart, the purveyor of outsourced US manufacturing jobs and largest Chinese Communist customer, pays over 30 percent less than other large retailers, let's take US Air's Captains pay of about 100k a year (first year of course) and multiply by .7 = $70k a year for flying an Airbus or 737. FO should get $38k a year. Expensive and minimal medical and no retirement. Doubled up in the hotel. FAs? Let's say $20k a year. Lot's of those around too. Hmmmmm. . . . . bet they could import some even cheaper Chicom prison labor to work the ramp. Pres Bush likes Walmart . . . . . and likes importing more desperate labor willing to undercut American's standard of living. Sounds like something the Republicans would go along with in a heartbeat with the manta that "importing is good for you."

Betcha they won't have a bit of trouble filling those jobs at that payrate or even below.
 

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