Here Is Your Big Chance

[FredF]

Wealth and income as far as taxes are concerned do not relate. It is not a wealth tax but an income tax.

If you look at the figures even further you will see

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes

The top 10% pay 64.89%

The top 25% pay 82.9%


So you see, your 50% from 5% is completely bogus. You do not pay taxes on wealth you pay it on income.

 

[sentrido]

ok, substitute the word income for wealth, and the argument is no longer bogus.

Also I'm not shure of the point of you figures?

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes

The top 10% pay 64.89%

So the 90% - 95% pay 64 - 53 = 11%

The top 25% pay 82.9%

So the 75% - 90% pay 83 - 53 -11 = 20%

Doesnt mean crap.

Show me the average income per percentile of the population, and you will see the lower 95 get the shaft.Or go read Perfecly Legal and learn how the rich never pay the 35% rate that is often quoted, or how the super rich dont pay any income taxes at all. Its a wonderfull book that explains how the tax burden has been slowly shifted onto the middle class.(And before you get your panties in a bunch, Its been a bipartisan effort). Or all the scams that corporations run so that during years of record profits, they are paying no tax AT ALL.

 

[FredF]

Let me see here if I get my handy dandy abacus out of the vault and do some simple math. Not government math, but simple math

According to the IRS statistics, the top 25% of all wage earners pay 82.9 % of all imcome tax revenues. Let see here

100.00 - 82.9 = 17.1 % of remaining imcome taxes are paid by
100.00 - 25.00 = 75 % of the population but even that number is wrong becasue it fails to take into account the number of those that don't pay any income tax or better yet get rebates.

Since I can't find those actual numbers I wont state them here but I beileve it was around 10%.

 

[mweiss]

So what's your point? I'd have to go back and look again but I remember seeing how the top 25 percentile have over 90% of the nations wealth.

Are you instead suggesting that everyone pay the same number of dollars?

Oh, by the way, what you don't see from the IRS is that payroll taxes are taken at a much higher percentage rate from lower-income people than from higher-income people. Did you know that?

 

[delldude]

WHOLEE SHEEYUT..THIS BUD'S FER YOU

 

[sentrido]

There are people who still use AOL?

Man they have to be real slow.

On the internet I mean.:unsure:

swear.

 

[FredF]

Actually I do know about payroll taxes, they are taxes paid by your employer, also paid by you in lower salaries, for mediacre and social security, and they are not higer or lower for anybody, they are the same percentage. They do not take more based on salary. It is a flat rate percentage.

So if you really want to be accurate here you would say that as total wages go up, those making more actually pay more total dollars in these taxes as well.

I never sugested that people pay the same number of dollars nor am I completely against the current tiered system, I was merely pointing out the un-balanced amount of taxes that are paid by those in higher income brackets.

What the democrats are trying to do, and they are having luck doing it by the way, is to get a minority of people paying taxes and the majority of people not paying or actually getting mone back. Then they scare them into believing that they and only they(being liberal democrats) have thier best interest at heart in ever single election.

It is about buying votes plain and simple. "Vote for me because I will see that you get more money back from those evil rich mean people that don't actually deserve the money that they work so hard for." Then to top it all off, they go around screamin that the other side is trying to start some kind of class warfare.

 

[sentrido]

Some of those taxes are capped, so higher income people are only paying them up to a point.Thats why lower income people (relative) pay a higher percentage of their incomes to those taxes.

 

[sentrido]

If we are going to support the programs our goverment provides, we have to pay for it. The only way to generate enough revenue is a progressive tax. If you dont want a progressive tax then you either burden the middle and lower incomes with a very high flat tax, or shrink the government. This administration has cut taxes, primarily for the highest incomes. And also grown the government.WTF? Thats good for us how? At least the dems would have the "personal responsability" to pay the bills. Your principaled views on taxes are admirable, and even defendable on ethical terms, but are not practicle in application.Plus the tax gap isnt as wide as you might think.Of tax payers in the 35% bracket(who actualy payed taxes at all)only really payed about 22 cents on the dollar, while the rest payed about 17 cents.

 

[FredF]

I do agree that the government is WAY too big. I think that there are way too many entitlement programs out there and too much pork that goes to everybody with a hand out and that there is way to much overall tax burden on the population period.

I disagree that the dems have the "personal responsability" as you put it. What they want to do is continue to shift the burder of taxes off on the much higher income levels just so they can support thier entitlements to those making less money than they decide is the correct amount that will vote for them

I am very disappointed that the President has not decreased the size of the government but in fact increased it. Unfortunately, should Kerry get elected, he has already told everyone that he supports Government Health Care which has a price tag near 1 Billion Dollars. He wants to add that to the tax burden of those that are already over paying thier share.

I will also state that one of the Dems favorite thing is to call a smaller increase than they would like on any particular program a "Cut".

This is a huge part of why we are where we are. As soon as someone starts talking about reducing the amount of the growth, the dems start screaming the those nasty evile conservatives are cutting these programs that keep voters in their pocket.

What is totally worse is that the self serving media not only lets them get away with it, but is in cahoots with them.

There is inheriantly something wrong with a career politician. Especially one that is worth millions of dollars. No I am not being specific here because there are plenty of them out them The biggest problem in government is that the people that make most of the laws, don't have to live in the real world. They just say and do whatever they have to to maintain enough people to continue to vote them back into office, but term limits is a whole nother thread.

 

[mweiss]

Unfortunately, should Kerry get elected, he has already told everyone that he supports Government Health Care which has a price tag near 1 Billion Dollars. He wants to add that to the tax burden of those that are already over paying thier share.

These same people would then be paying less in health insurance. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul, but the net result could well be positive.

I will also state that one of the Dems favorite thing is to call a smaller increase than they would like on any particular program a "Cut".

They hardly have a monopoly on this. The Bush campaign has referred to many of Kerry's votes as votes for cuts in defense, when they were simply smaller increases.

Incidentally, if the increase is lower than the rate of inflation, then they are cuts in real dollars.

The biggest problem in government is that the people that make most of the laws, don't have to live in the real world.

Yes. Well, no, it's probably not the biggest problem, but it's a significant one. Of course, no party seems to have a monopoly on this, either.