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How Many Have Crossed?

Does the truth hurt that bad MCI? Did I strike the nerve of a "TWAer"? You are correct about me not knowing anything about TWA with the exception of what I have learned from reading the AA forum and what I have been told by the "X-nAAtives" that are here SCABBING for NWA because you stole their jobs. So why don't you KEEP YOUR SCAB BUIESNESS TO YOURSELF?
 
Thank you Borescope, A little common sense goes along way in this world and these union-fanatics have flat out gone off the deep end. The absolute ignorance is beyond me.
 
Thank you Borescope, A little common sense goes along way in this world and these union-fanatics have flat out gone off the deep end. The absolute ignorance is beyond me.
Call them fanatics if you want.I dont think they have gone of the deep end,I think there fighting for what they think is just and fair.They are airlne people and union members and they have something you dont and wont ever have.Pride in what they do and self respect.

You come on this board for intertainment and to just stir the pot,Ive read lots of your post since the strike started,you are a smart ass and a leech.And I do hope you come scab in a town near me.

If you had any kind of sack you would put up your real name and stand up infront of people in person with some pride in who you are but you choose to hide behind this board.

Theres nothing wrong with contract work I got the same little card in the mail that alot of folks did from STS looking for mech's.I was laid off from U,But I didnt go scabing.Thats not contract work,Its a slap in the face to the real airline worker who you are living off of there past efforts.

I dont like I wont like you,and dont even try to flame me....but you will..I know you will....because your a sorry little person hiding behind a msg board and can get away with it.Then go jack off in your arrogant egocentric sick pride...that you got the last word in.
 
Wow allstrike that was a very good post up to the "jack off" part. There is nothing at all wrong with fighting for what you believe in. That is if it is done in a logical manner and not in a blind self-destructive manner. I don't care to flame anyone here, it just happens that way sometimes. If you have been following this board then you will know that I was the one slammed here first. These AA guys have indeed brought the worst out of me. I think I have kept it down to a minimum and kept it within a select few.
 
“I am a proud wife of an AMFA striker. I think I am having more difficulty then my husband is in dealing with friends crossing the picket line. Several close friends have crossed the picket line in MSP. To make matters worse, one "friend" was a previously laid off mechanic with 1995 seniority who had no legitimate chance of ever returning to NWA but gladly took a job from a former co-worker without so much as a wink of an eye. The other "friend" had the nerve to come to my house and have dinner with my family the week before crossing the picket line. Can you believe it! Came to my family's home, ate our food, played with our kids, and listened to how we are struggling to make it, only to stab us all in the back and cross the picket line. I am so disgusted!
I've heard so many excuses from insiders (work control, etc) still working within the company stating that some these SCABS did what they had to do in order to provide for their families and that we (my husband and I) did not understand each of their (SCABS) "unique" situations which "forced" them to cross the picket line.
That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard in my life as I am currently pregnant with twins and for sometime had no medical insurance(could not afford COBRA)to even seek prenatal care. If anyone ever had a reason to cross my husband certainly did. I have seen my husband riddled with guilt watching his pregnant wife work full-time and overtime only to barely make ends meet. Still, he never crossed the picket line. Instead, he has taken any opportunity possible to make a few extra bucks. He has had to endure comments from unknowing union people telling him stupid things like "sometimes you have to swallow your pride" or "you know a job is a job." I can honestly say I have never been represented by a union in my life, but I fully understand the complexity of the situation, the honor of the union and what it stands for. I have personally told friends and family how ashamed I would be if my husband crossed the picket line. I would no longer respect him as a man if he crawled back for another kick in the pants. My husband is just worth so much more than that stupid company can ever offer him. Although it will not be easy, we will get through this. I stand by him 100%. I am so proud of the rest of you who have chosen to continue the fight and keep your integrity by standing united and choosing not to cross the picket line. Sorry so long but I have been dying to comment for some time. Happy Holidays. I am certainly thankful for all of you.
Proud wifeâ€￾
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From the wife of Opus and the mother of his children,

HOW DARE YOU!!! You put pride before the welfare of your family. Pride in what? Union membership, doing what everyone else is doing, following the other lemmings off the cliff, putting the wishes of others BEFORE YOUR FAMILY? You and your husband should be ashamed that your gang affiliation is more important to you than you family. You are a disgrace to real families everywhere in every industry (most of which are not union by the way) How dare you look down your nose at 27.00 per hour and bennies, you may think you or your husband are worth so much more but I dont know anyone making what they think they are worth, just ask any registered nurse if he/she is earning what they are worth. Your statements are a disgrace to wifes of avaition mechanics (who are actually working in their craft) everywhere and your are a disgrace to mothers who put their families first. You should be reported to child services. Stupidity is rampant in our country right now and you are a prime example.
The proud wife of a new NWA mechanic
 
Yea, all her friends and neighbors are back at work while she works overtime and her husband wonders what happened and hoping he can rake some leaves that day. Meanwhile the bills are steadily falling behind and they will soon be living in the projects on welfare with 2nd rate State Medical clinics for insurance. She can really be proud of her husband when he goes and buys grocery with their newly acquired food stamps. As he's walking down the sidewalk in the cold he will be thinking where are my AMFA Brothers? We were one in solidarity? Why am I out here in the cold all alone? There were 4,500 of us and now there is just me? How could this happen? I paid my dues to AMFA to protect me against this? Where is AMFA and my union brothers? Finally he will think "Where did "I" go wrong?".

It's not so bad though she’s "Proud of her man."
 
HOW DARE YOU!!! You put pride before the welfare of your family. Pride in what? Union membership, doing what everyone else is doing, following the other lemmings off the cliff, putting the wishes of others BEFORE YOUR FAMILY? You and your husband should be ashamed that your gang affiliation is more important to you than you family. You are a disgrace to real families everywhere in every industry (most of which are not union by the way) How dare you look down your nose at 27.00 per hour and bennies, you may think you or your husband are worth so much more but I dont know anyone making what they think they are worth, just ask any registered nurse if he/she is earning what they are worth. Your statements are a disgrace to wifes of avaition mechanics (who are actually working in their craft) everywhere and your are a disgrace to mothers who put their families first. You should be reported to child services. Stupidity is rampant in our country right now and you are a prime example.
The proud wife of a new NWA mechanic

No how dare you condoning the type of activities that put families under duress and break up marriages. Are you so short sighted you can only see the present?

When one is making $6 an hour and has no benefits it would be easy to say that someone making $27 an hour was making way too much, robbing the company, and doesn't work fast enough for the money he recieves. To someone making $1.00 an hour overseas the same scenario is similarly true. NWA is destroying the security that many American families have spent years to achieve and it's not just the mechanics but the ground workers, flight attendants and Pilots also who are being raped with the help of people like your husband and wives with attitudes like yours.

All you and your husband are-are tools of a greedy company that uses tactics to steal from their employees-their livelyhoods and benefits which took years to earn. All these items stolen at the blink of the eye. Do you see the corporate officers suffering?

You'll get yours lady so don't get too comfortable at NWA they have already proven themselves. Your husbands actions are the equivalent of stealing food from babies. I hope your proud of yourselves. To condon the behavior of NW is to condon this corporate behaivor nationwide. I guess in your eyes the employee should passively accept any cost cutting measure the corporation comes up with. With an attitude like this we will all soon find ourselves without retirements, medical programs, job security and leaning on the tax payer for medical benefits through indigent care centers while corporate officers count their millions in their palatial estates.

The haves and the havenot's. Lady, it will only be too soon before you find out which side of the equation you and you husband will end up on. Before, the unions were somewhat of a firebreak or speedbump to keep the corporation from stealing everything working men and working women have spent years to earn through hard work and negotiation. You have helped corporate America get away with pilaging from working American families. Hope you can afford iron bars for your windows or to live in a gated community. You'll need all the protection you can get. Attitudes like yours and your husbands are succefully turning our society into a two class society.

Shame on your husband for aiding in the decline of our American middle class society. The very thing that seperates our nation from becoming some banana republic is its middle class. Shame on you for supporting his selfish behavior-Me first screw the rest of you. Lady, if we don't work together we will all suffer. Why is that such a hard concept for you to understand. When your husband goes to find work in the future the pay will be much lower and the benefits will have shrank severly. Take your tainted coins. Forget about the rest of the workers in you mind I'm sure we had it coming anyway.
 
Its a matter of fighting corporate greed, the "walmartization" of an industry, where cheaper is not better, in fact its deadly. Scabs are willing lick the boots of the master, who continues to kick them because they let him. Workers like you believe whom ever will pay them the pittance of $27.00hr, is to be held as the savior. Except your pay will not stay there, as someone is always willing to undercut you. Your $27.00hr and "bennies" will be short lived. NWA rogue management will undercut you also, you fools will never work cheap enough to fill the greedy hands of these despicable corporate thugs. They know you will bend over on command...easy prey. The scab has assisted management in this treachery. Scabs are like Judas, Benedict Arnold, and all the rest of this ilk who prostitute themselves, sell themselves and their class out for a few pieces of silver.

Here is a link http://www.geocities.com/cordobakaf/index.html

"Welcome to Class Against Class, a site dedicated to reclaiming the Theory & Practice of Class Struggle from authoritarian groups or those who would presume in some way to act on behalf of the working class.The significance of the name 'Class Against Class' lies in our recognition that despite the numerous & varied developements Capital has undergone as a result of working class pressure,the basis for its' existence remains in the'real' process of production & reproduction,in the expropiation of surplus value by capital(i.e wage labour);in its' simplest form we work for them.Who 'we' consists of,the question of 'work',& who 'they' are,are of course open to debate,& we welcome recent discussions of 'class recomposition',the role of unpaid labour in reproduction,the 'refusal of work' etc.*"

"We have no particular 'party line',we only argue for the centrality of working class self-activity in any attempts to go beyond the existing social relations,and take as our starting point the recognition that:
Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf. (Taken from As We See It by Solidarity [London])"

Opie (Ms), PTO, and the rest of the bootlickers; Your hatred of unions and union workers is only a small part of the equation. Attack of the Unions is just the start of what the upper class and the government is planning on doing to the American Worker to satisfy its greed lust. They will not cease until we are all subserviants to them in the soon to be 3rd world ecomomy in the US... until they have total control of the percieved "subclass". If it was up to vile, weak people as yourselves, US workers today would still be in sweatshops, working 16 hour days 7 days a week. We would still have 10 year old kids in the mine shafts. With your help, we are on our way back down. Corporate America thanks you for your help. Your kind will never fight, only cower to the man...nothing but weakness and cowardice. He barks...and you jump....like a good dog does.

It sickens and disgusts me to no end that you scab excrement bash the the NWA strikers because they had the guts to stand up to the nefarious NWA corporate criminals. Yet, I smile because I know they will be turning their guns on the scabs and the other workers who turned their backs on the mechanics when they should have fought with them. Its now time for you to feel the fire, enjoy.
 
Shame on your husband for aiding in the decline of our American middle class society. The very thing that seperates our nation from becoming some banana republic is its middle class. Shame on you for supporting his selfish behavior-Me first screw the rest of you. Lady, if we don't work together we will all suffer. Why is that such a hard concept for you to understand. When your husband goes to find work in the future the pay will be much lower and the benefits will have shrank severly. Take your tainted coins. Forget about the rest of the workers in you mind I'm sure we had it coming anyway.


I'm not sure I understand the hostility toward "corporate America". Is this just an insatiable need to blame some other nameless entity for all of one's own problems? I understand it's really easy to do so, but one must admit that it's also very intellectually lazy.

"Corporate America" is a made up of millions of individuals and stockholders that build a company with the motive of generating a profit. They hire people in the quest for this profit, not out of some obligation for the "greater good", and they pay that individual what he/she is worth on the open market. It's up to the individual to instill in themselves marketable skills to compete in the marketplance.

If a group of workers decide that they are worth more than the market bears, then they are free to quit, which is exactly what AMFA members decided to do. The company in question here is fighting to survive, and was willing to offer fair compensation for the work that needed to be done. The fact that there were a lot of willing mechanics that would jump at the chance to work for a legacy carrier should be of no surprise, because you have to have be completely illiterate in basic macroeconomics to think that a particular skill is always going to be worth certain wage rate.

It seems somewhat childish to me to cling to this Marxist notion that it's the workers vs the evil corporations, when a vast majority of us are shareholders of some kind. Just as public schools often reward mediocrity and stifle excellence and achievement, the same can be said of unionism as it exists today. I'm curious; do union members congratulate a member that gets promoted to management, or do they cross them off their Christmas Card list? Do union members work late, off the clock, to make sure a job gets done, or would that be discouraged as well?

I guess I have a hard time grasping the reasons behind the anger and resentment that seems to permeate from the leftist unions. I was raised to believe that your worth is in the self, and that if you are relying on anybody else (union, government) to take care of you, then you are basically are an overgrown child. That isn't meant to be harsh, but I think that is what drives most people to never be in a situation where they need to rely on someone else to take care of their family.
 
Its a matter of fighting corporate greed, the "walmartization" of an industry, where cheaper is not better, in fact its deadly. Scabs are willing lick the boots of the master, who continues to kick them because they let him. Workers like you believe whom ever will pay them the pittance of $27.00hr, is to be held as the savior. Except your pay will not stay there, as someone is always willing to undercut you. Your $27.00hr and "bennies" will be short lived. NWA rogue management will undercut you also, you fools will never work cheap enough to fill the greedy hands of these despicable corporate thugs. They know you will bend over on command...easy prey. The scab has assisted management in this treachery. Scabs are like Judas, Benedict Arnold, and all the rest of this ilk who prostitute themselves, sell themselves and their class out for a few pieces of silver.

Here is a link http://www.geocities.com/cordobakaf/index.html

"Welcome to Class Against Class, a site dedicated to reclaiming the Theory & Practice of Class Struggle from authoritarian groups or those who would presume in some way to act on behalf of the working class.The significance of the name 'Class Against Class' lies in our recognition that despite the numerous & varied developements Capital has undergone as a result of working class pressure,the basis for its' existence remains in the'real' process of production & reproduction,in the expropiation of surplus value by capital(i.e wage labour);in its' simplest form we work for them.Who 'we' consists of,the question of 'work',& who 'they' are,are of course open to debate,& we welcome recent discussions of 'class recomposition',the role of unpaid labour in reproduction,the 'refusal of work' etc.*"

"We have no particular 'party line',we only argue for the centrality of working class self-activity in any attempts to go beyond the existing social relations,and take as our starting point the recognition that:
Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf. (Taken from As We See It by Solidarity [London])"

Opie (Ms), PTO, and the rest of the bootlickers; Your hatred of unions and union workers is only a small part of the equation. Attack of the Unions is just the start of what the upper class and the government is planning on doing to the American Worker to satisfy its greed lust. They will not cease until we are all subserviants to them in the soon to be 3rd world ecomomy in the US... until they have total control of the percieved "subclass". If it was up to vile, weak people as yourselves, US workers today would still be in sweatshops, working 16 hour days 7 days a week. We would still have 10 year old kids in the mine shafts. With your help, we are on our way back down. Corporate America thanks you for your help. Your kind will never fight, only cower to the man...nothing but weakness and cowardice. He barks...and you jump....like a good dog does.

It sickens and disgusts me to no end that you scab excrement bash the the NWA strikers because they had the guts to stand up to the nefarious NWA corporate criminals. Yet, I smile because I know they will be turning their guns on the scabs and the other workers who turned their backs on the mechanics when they should have fought with them. Its now time for you to feel the fire, enjoy.
Hackman, I find your last paragraph interesting. You say that the other unions should have supported AMFA at NW; and in terms of real unionization they should have. But was AMFA really a union in terms of it's true beliefs or really just an association of elitist aircraft mechanics who heard everything they wanted to hear from Delle? Did they not exchange the word "union" in their last contract to "association" everywhere it appeared?I remember all of the rhetoric over the years that came from AMFA; things like "the bagsmashers are riding the mechanics' coattails and are holding us back", and "we don't need strength in numbers, our skills will shut the airline down". Remember how the vast majority of aircraft mechanics referred to the ramp personell as "bag apes", "knuckle draggers" and the like? Now Bob Owens will rightfully ask, "was it individual mechanics that did this or AMFA reps"? I think that question can be best answered by (I believe it was TWU informer) who in another post stated "AMFA is the membership." AMFA members claimed that Steenland is an elitist and is way overpaid (which he definately is) but claim that they can't live off $35/hr. Yet they turn around and say topped out rampers with 15 or more years who make $20/hr an hour are way overpaid and feel should make less than what even Steenland wants to pay them. Of course, the minority like Bob Owens disagree with this, but as you told me earlier people like Bob are definately not the majority. So how in the world could have the AMFA members at NW expected support from the "overpaid bag apes" when the AMFA members ridiculed, demeaned, and spat on them? Not to mention the fact that the IAM bosses are still incensed by the loss of the mechanic's dues.

Lets assume for a minute that the IAM did walk with AMFA and NW shut down. If that had happened, I can guarantee you that AMFA and it's members would have claimed "it was strength in withholding our skills that shut NW down and not the fact that the "bagsmashers" walked with us." Of course that would have been the big debate. So by AMFA walking out by themselves (witholding their skills) we can clearly see that NW was able to keep flying.
The reasons for the failed AMFA strike in my opinion are as follows:

1. AMFA and it's members contempt for other groups (especially the ramp) ensuring no support.

2. The AMFA leaderships failure to close the outsourcing loopholes (even if they inherited it from the IAM). This allowed NW to replace 50% of it's mechanics long before the strike began.

3. AMFA's failure to realize that NW wanted them off the property forever and the fact that they underestimated NW management's resolve to accomplish this. NW management starting planning this as soon they felt humiliated after the last contract.

You say you smile for what will probably happen to the IAM for not supporting the AMFA strike. There is only one course of action left for the IAM membership at NW if they are unwilling to work for what NW is proposing. It just comes down to a question of whether the IAM will listen to it's members or be more concerned about collecting dues at any price.
 
It just comes down to a question of whether the IAM will listen to it's members or be more concerned about collecting dues at any price.
.......and you just hit the nail on the head :up: It is ALL about dues flow the industrial unions have proven this to be so, heres a prediction...if the concessions are voted down you will see another re-vote because the membership is confused and does not realize whats in their best interset!
 
Opus said:
Mrs Opus,
So as not to get you confused with your husband you should register on the boards in your own user name, "Mrs Opus". Hate to tell you but you may be in for a rude awakening!! You are correct $27 hr is nothing to snub your nose at...Been through it before with my company, we gave and gave, just kept coming back and then booted out the door. Supposedly NWA paid $32 hr to scab, now its down to $27 for the "new hires", your new company is in BK, pilots just took 24% cut. The "new" mechanics are next, say the company offers $19 hr due to current losses, you and you husband just moved there for him to accept a positon based on $27 hr....you going to be pissed...damn right!! And don't say it not going to happen, like you said before its supply and demand!! How many cuts are you willing to accept before you say no more? All claim all is perfect at NWA because all the union mechanics are gone, what you going to do when they cut again? What is your bottom line till you say no more $20, $15, what?
Good luck, I'm afraid you will need it!!!
 
It doesn't matter whether the other unions walked with AMFA at NWA. The AMFA people took a stand and said NO. When was the last time the IAM,TWU,or the Teamsters for that matter said NO to AIRLINE management? AMFA has won this strike just by refusing to give in. The AMFA strike at NWA may be the PATCO of the 21st century. PATCO people walked out and proved that the "labor" unions in this country were dead or dying from "rot" from within. When reagan "fired" the ATC controllers,labor,particularly the ALPA and the AFL-CIO,should have shut this country down. They didn't and now 25yrs later we are all paying for it. This AMFA strike has shown once again that "labor unions" have become nothing but another division of corporate america. Labor unions are now actually helping to destroy the middle class in this country with their inaction.
 
It doesn't matter whether the other unions walked with AMFA at NWA. The AMFA people took a stand and said NO. When was the last time the IAM,TWU,or the Teamsters for that matter said NO to AIRLINE management? AMFA has won this strike just by refusing to give in. The AMFA strike at NWA may be the PATCO of the 21st century. PATCO people walked out and proved that the "labor" unions in this country were dead or dying from "rot" from within. When reagan "fired" the ATC controllers,labor,particularly the ALPA and the AFL-CIO,should have shut this country down. They didn't and now 25yrs later we are all paying for it. This AMFA strike has shown once again that "labor unions" have become nothing but another division of corporate america. Labor unions are now actually helping to destroy the middle class in this country with their inaction.
The IAM said "NO" to EAL in 1989 and was backed by the TWU (F/A's) and ALPA. There was absolutely no support from anyone else. Now, it is everyone else's turn. :shock:
 

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