I LUV NY

[Bob Owens]

I think SWA will sell those slots within a year.
I heard on the radio that SWA was trying to talk The PONY into lowering fees so they can offer their low fares. The PA wasnt interested. I dont know the exact rate but my guess would be that landing a 737-800 would run at least $1500 at LGA, (probably more I'm just not in the mood to look it up on the Port Authority website) vs the $235 they are used to paying at ISP. Most of their effeciencies that they are able to capitalize on by running to secondary airports are marginalized when they try to operate out of places like LGA, all they have then is their high wage structure.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Most of their effeciencies that they are able to capitalize on by running to secondary airports are marginalized when they try to operate out of places like LGA, all they have then is their high wage structure.

Bob, don't forget about WN's motivated workforce, easy-to-understand fare structure, clever management and wonderful advertising.


Yeah, they earn their good wages. Instead of responding 'that is not my job...'

Hey, how could the union leaders be so smart at WN and so stupid at other airlines?

Similar to how GM is profitable everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in the United States.

Tell me what's the difference?

 

[Hopeful]

Bob, don't forget about WN's motivated workforce, easy-to-understand fare structure, clever management and wonderful advertising.


Yeah, they earn their good wages. Instead of responding 'that is not my job...'

Hey, how could the union leaders be so smart at WN and so stupid at other airlines?

Similar to how GM is profitable everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in the United States.

Tell me what's the difference?

Why is it that union leaders are so stupid? Isn't it possible managament are a buch of idiots? Always arrogant and preaching the "if you don't like it, you can quit" mantra.

According to you and other pro company ilks who post here a union is only smart when they bend over to company demands.

You want me to be motivated? How about giving me $10 more an hour like the SWA mechanic gets.

If you want to spend your career under a desk trying to get ahead, be my guest.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Hopeful, would you have agreed to that SWA mechanic wage scale before 9/11 ?

I don't think so.

Your union seniority is the only thing that keeps you from changing companies. You hide behind it when it suits your cause and complain about it when you are afraid of job security.

Yes managers can be idiots too and not just at AA.

How any shareholder could have tolerated that goofy BOD over at UA for decades is beyond me.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful, would you have agreed to that SWA mechanic wage scale before 9/11 ?

I don't think so.

Your union seniority is the only thing that keeps you from changing companies. You hide behind it when it suits your cause and complain about it when you are afraid of job security.

Yes managers can be idiots too and not just at AA.

How any shareholder could have tolerated that goofy BOD over at UA for decades is beyond me.

Get something straight here......CHANGE companies? Another airline? With all the work thathas been outsourced? Pay and benefits decimated? You mean go work for a company that still practices age and sex discrimination?

Say what you want about unions but age and sex discrimination is non existent. And before you respond with the "unions" protect the bad and the lazy"SHPIEL, I'll tell you this....CORPORATE AMERICA has a union......IT'S CALLED THE GOOD OL BOYS NETWORK WHICH CONSISTS OF BOARDS OF DIRECTORS COMPRISED OF CEOS AND EXECUTIVES AND OTHER MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE FROM OTHER COMPANIES WHO HAVE THJEIR PAY DETERMINED Y BOARDS OF DIRECTORS COMPRISED OF EVEN MORE CEOS AND EXECUTIVES .......ETC ETC ETC ETC


The only difference between an AFL CIO union and a Executive union is that the rewards based on screwing the average worker.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

You still didn't answer my question.

Before 9/11 would you have agreed to the SWA wage scale and work rules?

(and quit yelling)

 

[Hopeful]

You still didn't answer my question.

Before 9/11 would you have agreed to the SWA wage scale and work rules?

(and quit yelling)

I will yell whenever necessary as long as pro company anti union posters continue to defend corporate greed and arrogance.....

As for SWA contracts, I could care less..SWA is SWA andf AA is AA. We have a much larger fleet than they do. It's the apples to oranges comparison argument. Let's compare revenues.

It seems that only executives are able to earn what their peers at other companies make because they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO valuable.

I could care less about SWA or any other carrier. The bottom line is that this managment preached shared sacrifice and their sacrifice ended long ago while the workers' continues.

Don't assume what I would vote for or vote against.

I never answer questions in hindsight because they are totally meaning less.
We had a contract voted for right after 9/11. Everyone was content and you did not hear any complaints about what management earned. It was only until it was taken from us under the guise of "shared sacrifice" that this all became an issue.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Okay so we'll mark your vote down as a "no" and that explains your attitude.

By all means compare revenues. Don't forget to include profitability too!

For the record I don't think any exec is worth those ridiculous salaries.

Simply they just negotiated lucrative wage packages. Just like your union leaders.

Deal with it.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

As for SWA contracts, I could care less..SWA is SWA andf AA is AA. We have a much larger fleet than they do. It's the apples to oranges comparison argument. Let's compare revenues.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not say a few posts back that you would like a SW contract?

Post #18: "You want me to be motivated? How about giving me $10 more an hour like the SWA mechanic gets." http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=680124

I have a feeling you're so disgruntled with life that no matter what contract (pay, work rules, etc.) you work under you would still be as bitter as after sucking on a dozen lemons.

 

[FWAAA]

I think SWA will sell those slots within a year.
I heard on the radio that SWA was trying to talk The PONY into lowering fees so they can offer their low fares. The PA wasnt interested. I dont know the exact rate but my guess would be that landing a 737-800 would run at least $1500 at LGA, (probably more I'm just not in the mood to look it up on the Port Authority website) vs the $235 they are used to paying at ISP. Most of their effeciencies that they are able to capitalize on by running to secondary airports are marginalized when they try to operate out of places like LGA, all they have then is their high wage structure.

Interesting theory and quite possibly on the money.

The LGA landing fees are $8.45/1000 pounds, so a 737-700 (WN doesn't fly -800s) with a maximum landing weight of 128,000 pounds would be $1,081.60, still not cheap compared to the outlying discount airports like ISP or PVD.

http://www.panynj.gov/CommutingTravel/airp...charges-lga.pdf

That's $7.89 per passenger if all 137 seats were filled, and more like $9 or $10 per passenger based on their typical loads. Question is whether WN can charge that much per passenger (just like AA and the others have to) and still be competitive.

 

[Hopeful]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not say a few posts back that you would like a SW contract?

Post #18: "You want me to be motivated? How about giving me $10 more an hour like the SWA mechanic gets." http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=680124

I have a feeling you're so disgruntled with life that no matter what contract (pay, work rules, etc.) you work under you would still be as bitter as after sucking on a dozen lemons.

Don't twist my posts...I was asked about the whole contract...wages AND work rules...
I'll take the $10 more an hour just like they get....
And yes, I will stay bitter as long as I am getting raped while your heroic executives get rewarded. Better sucking lemons than what you chose to in order to get a raise and promotion.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That's $7.89 per passenger if all 137 seats were filled, and more like $9 or $10 per passenger based on their typical loads.

Unless LGA is different from most airports, the landing fee is based on maximum certificated landing weight, not actual.

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

Unless LGA is different from most airports, the landing fee is based on maximum certificated landing weight, not actual.

Jim

Agreed - that's exactly how I computed it. B)

Then I divided that amount by the number of seats to calculate the amount WN would have to get from each passenger to cover the fee. That per passenger amount rises, of course, as load factor falls (nearly empty plane costs same as full plane, so light loads equal high per passenger costs).

 

[Bob Owens]

Agreed - that's exactly how I computed it. B)

Then I divided that amount by the number of seats to calculate the amount WN would have to get from each passenger to cover the fee. That per passenger amount rises, of course, as load factor falls (nearly empty plane costs same as full plane, so light loads equal high per passenger costs).

You need to add in the Passenger Facility Charge as well. $4.50/pp

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, don't forget about WN's motivated workforce, easy-to-understand fare structure, clever management and wonderful advertising.


Yeah, they earn their good wages. Instead of responding 'that is not my job...'

Hey, how could the union leaders be so smart at WN and so stupid at other airlines?

Similar to how GM is profitable everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in the United States.

Tell me what's the difference?

The difference is management.

Tell us "where are the differences in contract language that makes the SWA worker so much better".

The facts may disturb you.

AA does their maintenance in house, they do it because it saves them money. AA has 6 different types of aircraft, that drives up costs so perhaps thats why AAs costs are higher than SWA but AAs costs are lower than other airlines that have multiple fleet types.



Per worker, despite the fact that AA subs out less than most carriers-thus driving up its headcount, AA workers generate more revenue than SWA workers, over $26,000 a year more and currently AA pays their mechanics close to $20,000 a year less.

AA RASM (2007)was 13cents a mile
SWA RASM was 9 cents a mile

If you were to compare AAs Line maint staffing to SWAs you may be shocked, the ratios are pretty close, especially when you factor in multiple fleet types and ETOPS operations at AA.

SWA has 520 737s, AA has 6 different fleet types

AA only has 20% more aircraft than SWA but AA Mechanics maintain 40% more tires. One Main gear on the 777 has as many tires and more brakes than a 737. Obviously that means more maintenance.

Bigger more complex aircraft require more maintenance. Multiple fleet types drive up costs because you have to buy parts, tooling,equipement and provide training for each type, You also have less flexibility with crews because of FAA regs. . SWA only has to equip for one type of aircraft and not only that but they can afford to buy less parts because they have the most common aircraft out there, that means its easy for them to borrow parts.

The fact is that SWA has very low costs despite the fact they pay very well, the low costs are the result of effecincies in the structure and operation of the enterprise, and a motivated well paid workforec is what keeps it effecient and profitable. Their revenues are very low as well but they still make a profit.When AA realizes that motivation is more effectively gain by good pay than bad threats then maybe they will shows profits as consistantly as SWA.