IAM Withdraws NMB Election Application

[1AA]

Ask yourself this. If the iam was able to pull off a fraudulent card drive and win representation past the nmb, how many more fraudulent acts would they continue to pull off representing the membership?

 

[southwind]

If DL itself was found guilty of card fraud, will you resign?
Look, neither entity will be found guily of anything. It will be people working at their behest... and that assumes any evidence of intentional wrong doing even exists in the first place.
That said, if (a big if, obviously) it tunred out that there was intentional wrong doing, and it wasw condoned on a widespread level by labor leaders, I would not abide by that, nor would I endorse them unless/until sweeping reforms occurred.
I still contend that anyone who has willfully committed ay wrong doing needs to be held accountable- pro, anti, NMB employee, F&H employee, whomever. We already have one coworker who encouraged her fellow employees to violate DL policy by using other people's names & PPRs to "hack" an IAM survey. How the company handles that will be very telling.

And thank you for answering. I believe an investigation should be conducted, personally!

 

[southwind]

If DL itself was found guilty of card fraud, will you resign?

Sorry but, DL signs my paycheck, the IAM doesn't!

 

[700UW]

Does anyone have the brain power to realize the IAM knows every single card would be signature verified by the NMB?

The IAM had nothing to do with fraudulent cards.

 

[Kev3188]

Sorry but, DL signs my paycheck, the IAM doesn't!

Same here.

Nevertheless...

 

[Kev3188]

Does anyone have the brain power to realize the IAM knows every single card would be signature verified by the NMB?

The IAM had nothing to do with fraudulent cards.

At this point, I'm more interested in the scrutiny of the cards themselves; specifically the signatures, what DL used to submit them, and what threshold(s) were used to keep/toss any cards.

IMO, that's the jump off point of any investigation.

 

[topDawg]

Sorry but, DL signs my paycheck, the IAM doesn't!

So Delta can commit fraud because they sign your pay check? wtf kind of logic is that? 
 

save us the papal bull, your holiness the dawg.

We heard the same thing about Kip and he's still gone.
 

Once again, more threats. 
 
I would be smarter than this if I were you. 
 
You are kind of like the pilot that says "hey we should all have a sick out" 
The act itself is very illegal........ 
 
 
 
 
 
Oh and the rest of your post, it is amazingly sad how badly you are missing Kevs point right now. He isn't sticking up for the company or the IAM, he(and myself) only want to know how/why it happened. 
 
Did the company have something to do with it? 
Did the IAM have something to do with it? 
Did the pro-company FAs have something to do with it? 
Did the pro-union FAs have something to do with it? 
 
All of those could have legal ramifications. Quite honestly, as sure as you and baba are that the IAM is the ones that screwed up here I would think that you two would be screaming from the roof tops for an investigation. The fact that you are is very interesting...... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Does anyone have the brain power to realize the IAM knows every single card would be signature verified by the NMB?

The IAM had nothing to do with fraudulent cards.

and that is what they did... and they clearly kicked out the application or were very close to doing so because of the sheer number of invalid cards.

Feel free to show us otherwise, but I am quite sure that the NMB doesn't want to have to do the dirty work of sifting thru invalid and fraudulent cards - that is the responsibility of the union that is petitioning for a vote.

If the IAM didn't bother to go thru the cards and realize that many were missing information and many could well have been fraudulent, it IS the IAM that pays the price.

And I have repeatedly said that the likelihood is VERY HIGH that there are pro-IAM DL employees who were behind a lot of the shenanigans but again they don't get their name dragged thru the mud when the cards are thrown out - the IAM does.

and, no, dawg. those aren't threats.

The reality is we heard all kinds of self-righteous talk from Kip and others about that what they were doing was protected by law - and yet DL got rid of him and he is still gone.

it is precisely because DL signs its employees paychecks that they have the right to do things that a union can't do and that the gov't can't take away the right of an employer to do.

 

[topDawg]

and that is what they did... and they clearly kicked out the application or were very close to doing so because of the sheer number of invalid cards.

Feel free to show us otherwise, but I am quite sure that the NMB doesn't want to have to do the dirty work of sifting thru invalid and fraudulent cards - that is the responsibility of the union that is petitioning for a vote.

If the IAM didn't bother to go thru the cards and realize that many were missing information and many could well have been fraudulent, it IS the IAM that pays the price.

And I have repeatedly said that the likelihood is VERY HIGH that there are pro-IAM DL employees who were behind a lot of the shenanigans but again they don't get their name dragged thru the mud when the cards are thrown out - the IAM does.

and, no, dawg. those aren't threats.

The reality is we heard all kinds of self-righteous talk from Kip and others about that what they were doing was protected by law - and yet DL got rid of him and he is still gone.

it is precisely because DL signs its employees paychecks that they have the right to do things that a union can't do and that the gov't can't take away the right of an employer to do.

No but they are threats. 
 
You saying Delta is going to clean house now is a threat. Point blank period. It is ILLEGAL to fire someone for being pro-union. PERIOD. You saying Delta is going to do such is ILLEGAL. 
 
and about Kip, pretty sure that case is still on-going so I am not sure why you are commenting on it. (and like you said, you don't know what was in his file etc. etc.) 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Funny that Kevin has long tried to argue that DL employees don't have protection and has said that the company has targeted employees and now that I say the same thing, you jump down my butt.

Yes, dawg, DL does know full well who are the labor organizers.

I didn't say DL would fire anyone for being pro-union or being in a organizing campaign.

I have said repeatedly that DL clearly did believe it had a leg to stand on in terminating Kip; DL found a reason to terminate Kip and they can find reasons that are legal for doing the same thing with other people.

again, what you don't want to acknowledge is that DL does write the paychecks and employees do have the right to dictate a whole lot more about the conduct of its employees.

the vast majority of DL employees accept that and can live within the lines that they have been given.

Kev, you, and others want to find fault with DL because of the IAM's failure in doing a basic card drive while failing to acknowledge that the company can find plenty that employees have done wrong.

If you or Kev or anyone else wants to throw dirt, the company can and will do it as well.

the best course of action is for the IAM and its DL employee supporters is to admit defeat, back off, and figure out how to organize employees within the rules that DL AND the NMB sets.

in the case of this latest card drive, it is clear that IAM supporters violated enormous parts of both of those things.

Today would be a very good day for the pro-IAM crowd at DL to begin to admit that instead of looking for guilt everywhere else.

 

[Kev3188]

It is not clear at all.

 

[WorldTraveler]

only because you can't admit that fundamentally the IAM and no one else is responsible for the failure of the card drive.

 

[Kev3188]

No but they are threats. 
 
You saying Delta is going to clean house now is a threat. Point blank period. It is ILLEGAL to fire someone for being pro-union. PERIOD. You saying Delta is going to do such is ILLEGAL. 
 
and about Kip, pretty sure that case is still on-going so I am not sure why you are commenting on it. (and like you said, you don't know what was in his file etc. etc.) 

Exactly.

I think a lot of people think they have a sort of immunity because they are doing what they think the company wants. I suspect some may find out soon that that's not necessarily true, and that even if it was, some actions are so eggregious (sp?) that they cannot be ignored, even if the company wants to.

As for "incomplete cards," I'd still like to know just what all was missing. Remember, not every field needs to be completed in order for a card to be considered valid under NMB rules...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I have specifically said that DL has punished anti-union employees who have engaged in violence.

but using DL employee numbers in an IAM survey is a violation of DL and its employees' privacy BY IAM SUPPORTERS.

I'd like to know what was missing as well but even the IAM acknowledged that there incomplete fields and unreadable signatures which sounds very much like a kitchen table effort of a handful of people (in the dark if winter in MSP)

and we also have no idea how many DL FAs said they did not want to be represented by a union which would have to be considered by the NMB regardless of whether the NMB held a card for that employee or not.

 

[topDawg]

Funny that Kevin has long tried to argue that DL employees don't have protection and has said that the company has targeted employees and now that I say the same thing, you jump down my butt.

because we don't have any protection...........OUTSIDE OF THE LAW.
example, I don't have protection but Delta can't pay me 2 bucks an hour due to the law. Delta could however outsource my job tomorrow if they wished. 
 
You know this, but you are just trying to play games.
 

Yes, dawg, DL does know full well who are the labor organizers.

I didn't say DL would fire anyone for being pro-union or being in a organizing campaign.

So what does "delta is going to clean house" mean then? they are going to organizers house and clean them?
 

I have said repeatedly that DL clearly did believe it had a leg to stand on in terminating Kip; DL found a reason to terminate Kip and they can find reasons that are legal for doing the same thing with other people.

1) simply prove this
2) more threats......
 

again, what you don't want to acknowledge is that DL does write the paychecks and employees do have the right to dictate a whole lot more about the conduct of its employees.

Delta can write all the pay checks they want, THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW LABOR LAWS
as much as you hate it(and probably labor laws in general)

 

Kev, you, and others want to find fault with DL because of the IAM's failure in doing a basic card drive while failing to acknowledge that the company can find plenty that employees have done wrong.

uh.... I have said many times I don't think Delta is at fault.
I am curious how so many fake cards happened, but i haven't cast blame once.
 

If you or Kev or anyone else wants to throw dirt, the company can and will do it as well.

once again, threatening me and kev.
You aren't being very smart in your posts.....
 

the best course of action is for the IAM and its DL employee supporters is to admit defeat, back off, and figure out how to organize employees within the rules that DL AND the NMB sets.

two things
I am not an IAM support nor do I really care if the FAs vote in a union.
and how are you going to say IAM supporters need to follow the law yet here you are threatening union supporter or even non-union peoples jobs?