If you cannot compete with ideas then suppress

[Garfield1966]

Freedom

Of course I have no way of proving it. Never said I did. I also have no way of proving that we are not alone in the universe but that does not mean I don't believe it. Why would either of the parties want to get the WH with the impending mess that was happening? Congress knew what was going on (hell, they were complicit in it). I also believe there is a possibility that the Dems had no interest in the WH and got Obama to win the primaries instead of Clinton. Not many thought a black man could win the WH. I know I did not think it was likely, at least not for a few more election cycles. I beleve that the Republicans won because they happen to pick a crappier pair of candidates than the Dems did.

Whether the Dems win in 2012 will depend on who they republicans come up with to run against him. If they come up with another Palin or Rommey, then I would conclude that they don't want to win then either. The Dems are stuck with Obama unless they pin him with a embarrassment or a lie and get him out of office.



Ttailfan


So you are comparing the Iraq cluster screw to other wars fought in our history? The opposing forces are not organized like a standard military, there is no central location for their leadership. Their mode of operation is hit and run, they do not field forces for battle. The conflict has been going on for longer than WWII and we are not even facing nearly the same level of resistance that the Nazi put up. There have been no battles of the Bulge, no battle of Stalingrad, hell, there have been no battles to speak of. By the way, when wa the last time any terrorist organization has surrendered? Israel has been fighting for over 50 years and has not won. They are fighting on their home soil so the cost is far more evident. We are fighting on someone elses property so the looses are not ours. When it gets brought to our door step on a regular basis then the cost will be far more evident.

I think the war in Grenada had fewer casualties than the war in Iraq.

 

[Garfield1966]

Yup...W was horrible. But then, to liberals, anyone who is for freedom, small goverment, the Constitution...they are horrible.

I never said W was for small government.

You may not have meant that W was for small Gov but it is what you wrote. What you wrote says that

Libs hate W -- Anyone who is for small gov is hated by libs. -- Since Libs hate W, he is for small gov

 

[Ttailfan]

Ttailfan


So you are comparing the Iraq cluster screw to other wars fought in our history? The opposing forces are not organized like a standard military, there is no central location for their leadership. Their mode of operation is hit and run, they do not field forces for battle. The conflict has been going on for longer than WWII and we are not even facing nearly the same level of resistance that the Nazi put up. There have been no battles of the Bulge, no battle of Stalingrad, hell, there have been no battles to speak of. By the way, when wa the last time any terrorist organization has surrendered? Israel has been fighting for over 50 years and has not won. They are fighting on their home soil so the cost is far more evident. We are fighting on someone elses property so the looses are not ours. When it gets brought to our door step on a regular basis then the cost will be far more evident.

I think the war in Grenada had fewer casualties than the war in Iraq.

I don't want this war fought over here on our soil. Take it to them. Why should we have this fight on our streets? We didn't ask for our planes to be hijacked. We didn't ask for our WTC to be destroyed, our Pentagon struck, who knows where UA93 was headed to or how many other planes were set to be used that day that were prevented due to the grounding of all air traffic. We didn't ask for 3,000+ of our citizens to be murdered that day.

This is an action that lunitic minds brought on us. People who are sworn to destroy our nation, our way of life and drive us back to the dark ages like they live in over there. People who's very religion says convert or die. They chose this path when they figured we had another coward in the White House like when Klinton infested it. Bin Laden himself said that the movie Black Hawk Down proved to him that we were a nation of cowards who wouldn't defend ourselves. You never win when you back down from a bully. He just keeps coming back to you. WTC1 in 93, USS Cole, Saudi Arabia bombings, etc. Every one of those things were a test and Klinton proved he was a coward and wouldn't do anyting about it other them lob a bomb or two at an asprin factory in the middle of the night.

Well, they found out W is no coward and he took it too them...a war that none of us, espeically W, asked for, but was handed. Now we have another coward in the White House. Obama is falling all over himself running around the globe apologizing for America being a leader in the world. Apologizing that we would dare defend ourselves. Promising to disarm us so that we are a neutered nation waiting to be pushed around again.

I doubt if it will be long and we'll see something else happen. Probably not on our soil, but against our assets or people. Bullies are preditors and just like wild animals, don't wait long when they sense weakness in their pray. Pacifists are door mats, not respected...espeically by bullies and thugs.

Yes, we fight over there against an enemy who doesn't have the guts to put on a uniform and face the opposition head on. They hide behind civilians and use gorilla tactics. Their tactics of suicide bombers, IEDs and car bombs are effective, but shows they have no guts to face a real army. They hide like cockroaches and try to spread their plaque (a play on the cockroach theme) rather then standing up as men and taking the battle face to face. But that's why they are terrorists and not actual armies. But we've taken out a lot of them and if we didn't handicap our military (much like we did in Vietnam), I'm sure this could have been much further toward resolution.

Muslims hate Israel. Its been that way for eons. These terrorists hate us because we stand for freedom and we support Israel. Well, we did. Obama is doing a great job of turning his back on them. But that's not a surprise when you understand who he is.

 

[Ttailfan]

Ummm, those were military air traffic controllers that filled in.

The last time I checked, the military was government run.

You might want to tell that to Clayton Taylor. He writes for Airways magazine. He was a government controller fired and worked in a non-FAA tower in upstate New York before completing his ATP and becoming a pilot.

 

[freedom]

First of all, I don't see anything that Obama is doing to shore up the nation's economy. He's just giving free handouts to corporations that have squandered away their revenue like GM, AIG, etc. He's just pandering to the unions of "big auto" and "big steel" with his joke of a program called "cash for clunkers." Not to mention it being nothing but a self defeating concept for the liberals. They demand we all drive "eco-cars." But then whine and complain that we aren't buying as much gas. Their response to that is "increase the gas tax." You're (libs in government) the moron's who demand we start driving high mpg cars...you can't have your cake and eat it too as the old cliche' says.

He has never run a business, never had to bring home a sale, never had to worry about generating revenues. So he has no clue what he's doing up there and we'll see that even more so as his time goes on.

As for my ideas...trust me when I say, they would never fly. I would strip everything in DC back to ONLY what the Constitution requires the federal government to spend money on and control. Gone would be ALL freebies. You want something from the citizen's coffers without paying into it...you WILL EARN IT in some way just like during the Great Depression. All that free money being handed out...you're going to get off your butt and plant trees, etc. That worked back then and it would work again. After a good day's work, you get your free meals, your free bed, etc.

Charity is NOT the responsibility of government. Charity is both an act of an individual AND the church. Put control of all these social programs back into the hands of those who should have them and they would not only cost less, but would be much more beneficial to those using those services because they would be able to do more for them with better run programs.

The government can't do anything more effeciently then the private sector other then the military. Government just makes everything bloated, slow and ineffecient. Doing less with far more. Where the private section is all about doing more for less.

So the bottom line is that with this free hand out addicted society, what I'd do could never happen.

You think we shouldn't have saved AIG ???? the worlds largest third party insurer ??? if AIG had fallen they would have made lemhman brothers look like nothing ....

 

[Garfield1966]

Well, they found out W is no coward and he took it too them...a war that none of us, espeically W, asked for, but was handed.

The only war that W Bush was handed was Afghanistan which he ignored an let fester into a huge boil. As for Iraq, he not only asked for it, he invented it. Iraq had no involvement with 9/11. NONE! W Bush wanted a place for US bases in the ME and a source of oil. He had no plan and no idea of what was going to happen. To argue that W Bush did not want it is ludicrous on it's face.

According to a POTOS briefing in Aug of 2001, W Bush was notified that OBL was looking to hit the US.

Exactly how did Congress tie the hands of W Bush going after OBL? He is CIC. He can order the mil to find him and failed to do so. In fact on March 13, 2002 W Bush,

"We haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is," Bush said during the 2002 news conference. "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.

"I was concerned about him when he had taken over a country," Bush continued. "I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban. But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his Al Qaeda killers anymore."

As for how they fight. An opponent fights the way they feel they will have the best chance of victory. You don't go face to face with an opponent who has over whelming force. You look for a weakness and strike there. The terrorists have smaller numbers and limited fire power so they deploy the force they have in a manner that will do the most harm. Call them cowards all you want but that is what any military leader will do. Bush had a year and a half to execute Iraq how ever he saw fit. He had a republican Congress to do as he wanted. So any limitations were already in place. The US could not go in and just carpet bomb Iraq. As much as you would have liked to see it, the rest of the world would not have tolerated it and like it or not, we are part of the world. We cannot go it alone.

Iraq should never have happened and it was a failure from day one. It was based on lies and deception from day one. It was a distraction from day one. It was and continues to be a money pit from day one.

I don't care why they hate Israel. That is not the point. The point is, Israel has been fighting them for 50 years and have not won. Had W Bush actually read a history book he might have figured tat out. You don't win against OBL on the ground. You need to find another way.

 

[Ttailfan]

The only war that W Bush was handed was Afghanistan which he ignored an let fester into a huge boil. As for Iraq, he not only asked for it, he invented it. Iraq had no involvement with 9/11. NONE! W Bush wanted a place for US bases in the ME and a source of oil. He had no plan and no idea of what was going to happen. To argue that W Bush did not want it is ludicrous on it's face.

According to a POTOS briefing in Aug of 2001, W Bush was notified that OBL was looking to hit the US.

Exactly how did Congress tie the hands of W Bush going after OBL? He is CIC. He can order the mil to find him and failed to do so. In fact on March 13, 2002 W Bush,


As for how they fight. An opponent fights the way they feel they will have the best chance of victory. You don't go face to face with an opponent who has over whelming force. You look for a weakness and strike there. The terrorists have smaller numbers and limited fire power so they deploy the force they have in a manner that will do the most harm. Call them cowards all you want but that is what any military leader will do. Bush had a year and a half to execute Iraq how ever he saw fit. He had a republican Congress to do as he wanted. So any limitations were already in place. The US could not go in and just carpet bomb Iraq. As much as you would have liked to see it, the rest of the world would not have tolerated it and like it or not, we are part of the world. We cannot go it alone.

Iraq should never have happened and it was a failure from day one. It was based on lies and deception from day one. It was a distraction from day one. It was and continues to be a money pit from day one.

I don't care why they hate Israel. That is not the point. The point is, Israel has been fighting them for 50 years and have not won. Had W Bush actually read a history book he might have figured tat out. You don't win against OBL on the ground. You need to find another way.

I've come to the conclusion that all you and I are going to do is tie up space on USA's servers and accomplish nothing. You live in the Hate W and conservatives world, I live in the hate liberals world. We will NEVER see eye to eye on anything politic.

Like I say, you libs move to the west of the Rockies, we conservatives will stay to the east. You can have your eutopia and I'll keep my income and not have to deal with the disorder called liberalism. That would certainly make my day brighter. So, as far as I'm concerned, we'll save space and call this conversation over. I can refute your comments, but it would be akin to yelling into a cave. While its fun to listen to the echo, in the end, it accomlishes nothing. Have a good day.

 

[Garfield1966]

Not quite. I have little issue with true republicans as I consider my self a fiscal conservative. I also have little problem with true democrats as I consider my self a social liberal.

I despise fascist/religious republicans and socialist/extremist democrats. You seem to think republicans walk on water as you do not seem to have many issues with how they have run things. You do not have issues with Reagan and W Bush even though they both increased then national debt by several trillions yet you have a cow when Obama does the same.

You have said that Rush and you agree on numerous issues. I feel that Rush, O'Reilly and his left counter parts are morons so out of touch with reality that they should be given astronomical designations and placed on a star chart.

The fact that you do not address the lies and deception from W Bush shows where your loyalties lie. I no Clinton lied through his teeth about his relationship with Lewinsky. I also believe that he never should have been asked. He was, he lied and he should have had his butt hung out to dry because he was stupid. Unfortunately, he was like Reagan in that they were never held accountable for their actions. Reagan sold arms for hostages. It was in direct violation of US policy and ..... nothing happens. At the time his administration had more people under investigation than any before him but nothing stuck.

This country is so obsessed with persona over content, presentation over intelligence that it is amazing we are still functioning.

 

[code RED]

That's always been the left's way of dealing with the right. They have the media, so it isn't issues that they deal with...its just agree with the libs or we'll call you every name in the book and shout louder to drown you out and have our buddies in the media ignore you.

Like I said in a different post either on here or on another site...I don't recall which. When W had an approval rating in the 30s, he was a lame duck, powerless figure head who's agenda for this nation was dead.

Now that the big O is in the 30s, he still has a mandate, is strong and powerful, his agenda is vibrant and alive.


The media's job is not to report the facts, but manufacture not only "the facts" but also tell you what they mean to you. No...that's my job to decided.

I've long held that if the libs want their own country...let's put them to the west of the Rockies and we conservatives will keep the east. You pass your agenda for your side of the mountain and we'll do the same for ours.

Hmmm, Interesting.

Wonder how SOUTH CAROLINA ® US Rep. Joe Wilson is feeling this Morning ?

Seems ol' Joe couldn't GET TO the (hated) Media...Fast enough Last nite

Some people NEVER change,...........in fact, certain parts of this country NEVER change(think SE quadrant), and hypocracy still reigns Supreme in the LOWER half of America.

How appropriate, if the soon to be passed Health Care Reform bill, is entitled the "Joe Wilson" Reform Bill !

 

[tech2101]

You might want to tell that to Clayton Taylor. He writes for Airways magazine. He was a government controller fired and worked in a non-FAA tower in upstate New York before completing his ATP and becoming a pilot.

Sounds like you need a history lesson.

There were and still are private control towers.

That is not what Reagan used to replace the controllers in the PATCO strike.

 

[cltrat]

Hmmm, Interesting.

Wonder how SOUTH CAROLINA ® US Rep. Joe Wilson is feeling this Morning ?

Seems ol' Joe couldn't GET TO the (hated) Media...Fast enough Last nite

Some people NEVER change,...........in fact, certain parts of this country NEVER change(think SE quadrant), and hypocracy still reigns Supreme in the LOWER half of America.

How appropriate, if the soon to be passed Health Care Reform bill, is entitled the "Joe Wilson" Reform Bill !

actually I am quite proud to be from the south where most people are smart enough to know we don't want the government in charge of our health care and the ones who voted for Barry are starting to understand they got played

 

[Freedom4all]

Bomb Threat Forces Evacuation of DC TEA Party Planners

Is that from a right winger? No. From the left.

 

[tech2101]

Hmmm, Interesting.

Wonder how SOUTH CAROLINA ® US Rep. Joe Wilson is feeling this Morning ?

Seems ol' Joe couldn't GET TO the (hated) Media...Fast enough Last nite

Some people NEVER change,...........in fact, certain parts of this country NEVER change(think SE quadrant), and hypocracy still reigns Supreme in the LOWER half of America.

How appropriate, if the soon to be passed Health Care Reform bill, is entitled the "Joe Wilson" Reform Bill !

As I have told you before under your previous avatar; you are a fool for button-holing an entire region of the country based on one block of people. It shows ignorance.

 

[tech2101]

Bomb Threat Forces Evacuation of DC TEA Party Planners

Is that from a right winger? No. From the left.

No, it was from an idiotic criminal.

However, since you have already solved the crime, you might want to let the DC police in on your investigation...

 

[Freedom4all]

As I have told you before under your previous avatar; you area fool for button holing an entire region of the country based on one block of people. It shows ignorance.

pot meet kettle