I'm very curious

[KCFlyer]

Been gone a while but found my way back. And I see an awful lot of folks who either were, or still are, in the aviation industry. And they hold some pretty conservative views. The unions killed hostess..the unions are going to send longshoremen to Mexico. Unions are killing America. Obama bailed out GM to save the unions.

And most conservatives on other boards maintain that union workers are overpaid. And many of you guys posting here were airline union workers. So I have to ask....did you consider yourself overpaid? When your company went into bankruptcy and ripped your pensions away...did you say "yeah, we were just too greedy"? When they outsourced maintenance to third world countries, did you say "It's because I was overpaid"? , When they said they needed concessions in pay and benefits, did you nod and say "I'm just a greedy bastard"?

Because while I was away, I was posting on other boards, and on those boards, pretty much every conservative considered union workers overpaid. Hell...they considered EVERYBODY (themselves and their CEO excepted) to be overpaid.

So I have a simple question for you current or former airline employees.....were you overpaid? If not, why do you hold conservative views? Because I can tell you....from other boards, conservatives considered you to be overpaid. So were you?

 

[delldude]

Friends who were bricklayers and carpenters made slightly higher wages than I did without all the schooling, tech and responsibility.

 

[KCFlyer]

Friends who were bricklayers and carpenters made slightly higher wages than I did without all the schooling, tech and responsibility.

But were you overpaid? You were union weren't you?

 

[delldude]

But were you overpaid? You were union weren't you?

Based on other airlines I'd say under paid,remember I worked for Air Kmart at the time.

 

[Ms Tree]

I think this is one of the problems with politics of all persuasions more more so with conservatives. They seem to have the problem where if it's their guy it's OK but if it's the other guy it's not.

The Hostess, GM, teachers ... are all making too much money but when you ask a conservative if they are making to much the response is usually that the salary is what the market will bear. Look at their defense of CEO pay .. except when it's the CEO of the company they are working for where they had to take a pay cut but the CEO took a bonus. Just look at airline boards and look at them all crying about how they want their pay that they lost but complain that there are others willing to do their job for less money.

I am not sure 'over paid' is the term I would have used. That is very fluid and can mean a lot of things to different people. I am pretty sure I am over paid for what I do not in that it is relatively unskilled but my company is doing very well and they wages they pay attract very capable people. If my company does poorly am I over paid at that point? Does my companies profitability dictate if I am over paid or not or id my being over paid based on what comparable companies pay?

Should a guy putting tires on a car for 8 hours on an assembly line be paid more than minimum wage? I tend to think not but who is to really say what if fair or not? I do not know what metric to use.

 

[KCFlyer]

Based on other airlines I'd say under paid,remember I worked for Air Kmart at the time.

Dell...here's my point. I've been away from THIS site for several years, but I've been on other sites. When it came to unions...when it came down to what caused so many airlines to seek bankruptcy protection, then without failo, it was the CONSERVATIVES who were saying that YOU were overpaid and that YOU were the reason your airline failed. And given that sentiment, I am wondering...how in the hell can you be a conservative?

And for what it's worth, conservatives on other boards considered realtors overpaid... getting 6% for doing nothing...although that's one reason I'm divorced and another person close to me is divorced....realtors work their ASSES off....to the detriment of their families, but in conservatives eyes..they are overpaid.

In conservatives eyes, Walmart is GREAT because...."nobody is forcing them to work at Walmart". I read a book called "What's the matter with Kansas (my state)....it's about how people in red states vote against their own best interests...and don't realize they are doing it.

 

[KCFlyer]

I think this is one of the problems with politics of all persuasions more more so with conservatives. They seem to have the problem where if it's their guy it's OK but if it's the other guy it's not.

The Hostess, GM, teachers ... are all making too much money but when you ask a conservative if they are making to much the response is usually that the salary is what the market will bear. Look at their defense of CEO pay .. except when it's the CEO of the company they are working for where they had to take a pay cut but the CEO took a bonus. Just look at airline boards and look at them all crying about how they want their pay that they lost but complain that there are others willing to do their job for less money.

I am not sure 'over paid' is the term I would have used. That is very fluid and can mean a lot of things to different people. I am pretty sure I am over paid for what I do not in that it is relatively unskilled but my company is doing very well and they wages they pay attract very capable people. If my company does poorly am I over paid at that point? Does my companies profitability dictate if I am over paid or not or id my being over paid based on what comparable companies pay?

Should a guy putting tires on a car for 8 hours on an assembly line be paid more than minimum wage? I tend to think not but who is to really say what if fair or not? I do not know what metric to use.

Ms Tree....back in the day when China was "Red China" and we wouldn't give them the time of day....we gladly paid a guy $75 an hour (vastly overstated) to put tires on a car. It created someting called a "middle class". He took that money and wanted to take the family out to dinner...which allowed the guy who wanted to start a restaurant to thrive. He took that money and bought a camper....which helped the guy who wanted to run a RV store realize his dream. He took that money and took vacations....which gave pilots, FA's and rampers a job flying him to fun in the sun.

Then we all became stockholders and life went to hell in a handbasket. The stock was the focus...not the employee...hell, not even the customer. How little can we give the customer and how low can our costs be so that the shareholders are rewarded. Conservatives LOVE shareholders. It's the next US economy. We went from manufacturing to service to investment. I think the newest economy will be the "inheritance economy"...everybody keeps healthy insurance policies to insure that their kids don't live in poverty. Because they sure as hell aren't going to get a job that pays squat

 

[Kev3188]

Ms Tree....back in the day when China was "Red China" and we wouldn't give them the time of day....we gladly paid a guy $75 an hour (vastly overstated) to put tires on a car. It created someting called a "middle class". He took that money and wanted to take the family out to dinner...which allowed the guy who wanted to start a restaurant to thrive. He took that money and bought a camper....which helped the guy who wanted to run a RV store realize his dream. He took that money and took vacations....which gave pilots, FA's and rampers a job flying him to fun in the sun.

Then we all became stockholders and life went to hell in a handbasket. The stock was the focus...not the employee...hell, not even the customer. How little can we give the customer and how low can our costs be so that the shareholders are rewarded. Conservatives LOVE shareholders. It's the next US economy. We went from manufacturing to service to investment. I think the newest economy will be the "inheritance economy"...everybody keeps healthy insurance policies to insure that their kids don't live in poverty. Because they sure as hell aren't going to get a job that pays squat

Many conservatives have lost sight of the fact that it's a cycle-or circular. They're all too quick to champion the "small business owner," but forget that when you cut the airline guy's pay, it's not Wells Fargo or BP that are going to go without. He's going to stop taking his family out to dinner at the local pizza place long before he stops paying his mortgage or filling up his car.
The corporate guy loves his stock options, and profits, but forgets that it's a municipal worker that keeps the roads plowed so he can get to work (or so that his products can move), forgets that that same driver's tax dollars educated his workforce, and so on.
And so it goes...

 

[Ms Tree]

The world changes. There is no fighting it. I am sure carriage makers were pissed when the car came along. The people in the US have a lot of problems. We all want stuff. We do not understand the difference between needs and wants. We do not look long term, we only look short term. You look the aviation sites and you have the union folks wanting their lost pay back which is unrealistic given the economic reality. You have management that is getting bonuses while screwing over the workers. Are the union folks making too much? May be. May be not. Are they living beyond their means.... most people in general do. Are managers and execs making too much? Who knows. Every one compares their salary to everyone elses.

I think the biggest problem is we are all in it for our selves. We want to get whats ours and get out. Screw the other guy. My kids got a good education, why should I care about yours. I have a job, why should I care that you don't. I don't have kids, why should I pay for yours. I have health care, why should I care that you do not.... no one stops to think that we all affect each other one way or the other. We do not stop to think that most of those who do not have at one point did have and probably did not care about those who don't have. Now they are one and probably still do not realize there are people who are worse off than they are.

Nancy Regan was against stem cell research till she found out it could possibly help her husband. People rarely think they are over paid, it's usually the other guy who is.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

at the time no. and today looking back at work conditions, knowledge requirements and responsibilities, no.
But I left DALML in 94 and found out the hard way that I really was paid handsomely. It has taken me eighteen years to make more than I made in 94 dollar for dollar and not adjusting for inflation.

My 85 yr old ( now deceased) father in law was a furniture factory maintenance supervisor in a staunchly republican cpounty. If he argued this point once, he argued it a hundred times: I dont understand how a working man can vote republican when republicans have nothing to offer us.

but i always felt pilots were overpaid ; )

 

[FWAAA]

My 85 yr old ( now deceased) father in law was a furniture factory maintenance supervisor in a staunchly republican cpounty. If he argued this point once, he argued it a hundred times: I dont understand how a working man can vote republican when republicans have nothing to offer us.

For me, it's images of white racist Democrats like Lester Maddox, George Wallace, Orville Faubus and Roberty Byrd and the leadership roles they played in the Party of Slavery a century after the Republican Party forcibly ended the despicable practice. Abraham Lincoln wasn't waving axe handles or blocking schoolhouse doors to black children or joining the Klan. For me, the issue is this: I don't understand how a person could vote for Democrats given their role in perpetuating slavery and then segregation in our society.

 

[Ms Tree]

You really think dems and republicans of 50+ years ago are the same people that they are today? Look at the make up of the GOP in the House and Senate and look at the make up of the DNC in the House and Senate.

The Dems of the post Civil war era all became republicans. The RNC is the part of the white man.. Just look at the House leadership appointments of the RNC if you have any doubts.

 

[KCFlyer]

For me, it's images of white racist Democrats like Lester Maddox, George Wallace, Orville Faubus and Roberty Byrd and the leadership roles they played in the Party of Slavery a century after the Republican Party forcibly ended the despicable practice. Abraham Lincoln wasn't waving axe handles or blocking schoolhouse doors to black children or joining the Klan. For me, the issue is this: I don't understand how a person could vote for Democrats given their role in perpetuating slavery and then segregation in our society.

FWAAA....Abraham Lincoln would be considered a RINO today. I don't know if you noticed, but just after the Civil Rights act of 1964, the southern states took on a decidedly reddish hue. It was a democrat that passed the civil rights act. What good was being rid of slavery if you were not treated equally? Let's not forget those good republicans Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond and how they threw their undivided support behind LBJ after the Civil Rights act was signed. So in a way you are right...they didn't vote democratic...they voted republican...for the same candidates that perpetrated "separate but equal" in the 50's

 

[delldude]

Dell...here's my point. I've been away from THIS site for several years, but I've been on other sites. When it came to unions...when it came down to what caused so many airlines to seek bankruptcy protection, then without failo, it was the CONSERVATIVES who were saying that YOU were overpaid and that YOU were the reason your airline failed. And given that sentiment, I am wondering...how in the hell can you be a conservative?

And for what it's worth, conservatives on other boards considered realtors overpaid... getting 6% for doing nothing...although that's one reason I'm divorced and another person close to me is divorced....realtors work their ASSES off....to the detriment of their families, but in conservatives eyes..they are overpaid.

In conservatives eyes, Walmart is GREAT because...."nobody is forcing them to work at Walmart". I read a book called "What's the matter with Kansas (my state)....it's about how people in red states vote against their own best interests...and don't realize they are doing it.

Conservatives believe in less government intrusion into our lives, less taxation, smaller government, and so on.
Your view of personal wages and conservatism don't jibe in my book.

 

[KCFlyer]

Conservatives believe in less government intrusion into our lives, less taxation, smaller government, and so on.
Your view of personal wages and conservatism don't jibe in my book.

They should. Most conservatives HATED you when you belonged to a union. Don't care if you DID work for Kmart airlines....as far as conservatives were concerned YOU were the problem because YOU were overpaid. YOU were part of a union that was part of what was killing America. Hate to tell you dell, but those same buddies who tell you that government spending is bad and smaller government is good (unless it involves laws involving your bedroom conduct) viewed YOU as a big part of what's wrong with this country.