I'm very curious

[Ms Tree]

Really? The guy who wishes the middle class wasn't being eliminated is whats wrong with the country? You know, a conservative believes that all union workers are overpaid, but when he steps on a plane himself...or when he puts his family on a plane, you can BET he's hoping he's got the best pilots and he hopes only top notch mechanics touched his plane. Once it lands safely, those overpaid union bastards can go to hell. If you ask me THOSE guys are what's wrong with this country.

Just because one is in a union does not mean they are superior to the job than someone who is not. I think that is far too simplistic. When I get on a plane I am hoping that everyone who is working on board wants to be there, and the the people who worked on the plane wanted to work on the plane. I know no one wants to go to work every day but when I go to work I am for the most part happy about it and I do the best job I can. I have never been in a union. Given my experience with unions, I would say there is a good possibility that some of the union folks who are on or who have worked on the plane would not be there and everyone knows it. The union still has to fight for them and get their job back. Union good/union bad is way to simplistic.

 

[Ms Tree]

I shudder to think the people on this board vote!

Let us know when you have formulated an argument to support your simplistic one line retort. Perhaps you can come sit with the adults then.

 

[KCFlyer]

Just because one is in a union does not mean they are superior to the job than someone who is not. I think that is far too simplistic. When I get on a plane I am hoping that everyone who is working on board wants to be there, and the the people who worked on the plane wanted to work on the plane. I know no one wants to go to work every day but when I go to work I am for the most part happy about it and I do the best job I can. I have never been in a union. Given my experience with unions, I would say there is a good possibility that some of the union folks who are on or who have worked on the plane would not be there and everyone knows it. The union still has to fight for them and get their job back. Union good/union bad is way to simplistic.

Yes, it's simplistic, but from what I have seen on other boards, conservatives usually seem to feel that everybody is overpaid except themselves and the CEO. According to them, it's not a company's job to provide jobs...it's to provide a return to the shareholders. And if they are "bloated" in the personnel department, then it's only right and good that these companies 'rightsize'. And layoffs are good because they cut labor costs AND they increase the unemployment numbers, which they can blame on Obama. And the cure for all ills is a tax cut.

I only use unions in this case because this board is unique - most of the posters are current or former airline employees. You've watched jobs disappear...you've take pay and benefit cuts, and yet what I see ON OTHER BOARDS is that you all were a part of the problem - it was those damn labor costs that was sending airlines into bankruptcy. When you point out that maintenance is being offshored, the immediate response is that the mechanics here were overpaid and if they'd do it for less, the jobs would stay here.

 

[delldude]

Yes, it's simplistic, but from what I have seen on other boards, conservatives usually seem to feel that everybody is overpaid except themselves and the CEO. According to them, it's not a company's job to provide jobs...it's to provide a return to the shareholders. And if they are "bloated" in the personnel department, then it's only right and good that these companies 'rightsize'. And layoffs are good because they cut labor costs AND they increase the unemployment numbers, which they can blame on Obama. And the cure for all ills is a tax cut.

I only use unions in this case because this board is unique - most of the posters are current or former airline employees. You've watched jobs disappear...you've take pay and benefit cuts, and yet what I see ON OTHER BOARDS is that you all were a part of the problem - it was those damn labor costs that was sending airlines into bankruptcy. When you point out that maintenance is being offshored, the immediate response is that the mechanics here were overpaid and if they'd do it for less, the jobs would stay here.

But never any progressives. They're happy with their wages.

 

[KCFlyer]

But never any progressives. They're happy with their wages.

Nope. What progressives don't like is the fact that worker pay is slashed and executive pay is increased....and the response from conservatives is "that's capitalism". And then they'll defend executive pay that is 400 times what the average worker makes. And if that's capitalism, then capitalism kind of sucks.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

Dell, I agree there is plenty to cut in govt that wont impact common people but your view on personal wages is wrong

The wealthy are fighting to make as much as they can and to keep as much as they can by paying us less and less taxes.

You're logic will help them but not you.

If the wealthy fights for every penny, shouldnt we?

Looking at my father's pay stubs of a couple ten bucks a week to what he made by retirement, it was a steady climb. Slow but steady.

If you read my earlier post, my income has been relatively flat during my career. I presume that is true for most of us.

 

[southwind]

You really think dems and republicans of 50+ years ago are the same people that they are today? Look at the make up of the GOP in the House and Senate and look at the make up of the DNC in the House and Senate.

The Dems of the post Civil war era all became republicans. The RNC is the part of the white man.. Just look at the House leadership appointments of the RNC if you have any doubts.

Hatin' on the "Evil White Dudes" again !

No one thinks they are paid enough................period !

While I don't believe the GOP has all the answers, the demorats have no answers but more government, entitlements and lean more towards the peeps seen in this documentary:
Occupy Unmasked!
http://occupyunmasked.com/

Now available for your viewing pleasure on Netflix !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHcr_8Qgdos&feature=player_embedded#![youtube]

 

[delldude]

Dell, I agree there is plenty to cut in govt that wont impact common people but your view on personal wages is wrong

The wealthy are fighting to make as much as they can and to keep as much as they can by paying us less and less taxes.

You're logic will help them but not you.

If the wealthy fights for every penny, shouldnt we?

Looking at my father's pay stubs of a couple ten bucks a week to what he made by retirement, it was a steady climb. Slow but steady.

If you read my earlier post, my income has been relatively flat during my career. I presume that is true for most of us.

And what is my personal view on wages?

 

[delldude]

Nope. What progressives don't like is the fact that worker pay is slashed and executive pay is increased....and the response from conservatives is "that's capitalism". And then they'll defend executive pay that is 400 times what the average worker makes. And if that's capitalism, then capitalism kind of sucks.

The only way union workers pay is 'slashed' is if they let it. And from what I saw all too often many are willing to let it go that way because they have families.
Must be those dastardly Cons cooking up these schemes.

 

[KCFlyer]

Hatin' on the "Evil White Dudes" again !

No one thinks they are paid enough................period !

That's what I said...conservatives feel that everybody is overpaid EXCEPT themselves and their CEO. When you point to the auto industry...we were paying people too much to put a bumper on a car. When you point to the airline industry, they are paying too much to load bags on a plane. When you point to accountants in the general office, we are paying them too much to sit on their butts and put data in spreadsheets. When you point to computer tech support - it would never have gone offshore if we weren't paying them too much to start with.

But when it comes down to YOUR job....by God - you are worth every penny...and then some. Except in the eyes of another conservative in another industry. You have your congress (and most conservatives) fighting to avoid letting the Bush tax cuts expire on the "job creators". These "job creators" have had historically low tax rates since 2005...but jobs stopped being created BEFORE Obama took office...and the job creators haven't been doing squat in the job creation department. If the job creators won't create jobs, then I guess the government has to.

 

[KCFlyer]

The only way union workers pay is 'slashed' is if they let it. And from what I saw all too often many are willing to let it go that way because they have families.
Must be those dastardly Cons cooking up these schemes.

Yet if they stand firm - they "are killing the goose that laid the golden twinkie".

 

[Kev3188]

I shudder to think the people on this board vote!

I can imagine why the thought of someone that is both educated and pro labor scares the bejeezus out of you.

Just because one is in a union does not mean they are superior to the job than someone who is not. I think that is far too simplistic.

Maybe, but certainly no more simplistic than the pat talking points the right constantly parrot. Ever notice how all the same code words consistently show up? Not just here, but all over the place?

And what is my personal view on wages?

Who knows? You've been dodging the question since KC first asked...

 

[southwind]

So Kev and KC, please tell us how much everyone should make ? Let me guess, everyone should make the same amount, no matter the profession, live in the same 3/2 house, have one xbox w/ flatscreen tv, drive a Chevy Volt, pay exactely the same amount of taxes and own at least 2 cell phones ! Pretty close, wasn't I ?

 

[KCFlyer]

So Kev and KC, please tell us how much everyone should make ? Let me guess, everyone should make the same amount, no matter the profession, live in the same 3/2 house, have one xbox w/ flatscreen tv, drive a Chevy Volt, pay exactely the same amount of taxes and own at least 2 cell phones ! Pretty close, wasn't I ?

I didn't ask that question Southwind. YOu are a conservative - From the other boards I have been on, pretty much every job pays too much. The shareholder is king. So are you overpaid? What you you tell a conservative who is in sales who would disagree with you and say that you are paid to much for the job you do...and that your company could do better if it's labor costs are lower. Let me ask you. A GM employee gets a wage (not including benefits...just the wage) of $21 an hour to put a bumper on a car...is he overpaid?

 

[Kev3188]

Pretty close, wasn't I ?

Not by country mile.