Injunction is out

[aquagreen73s]

Incredible, isn't it Move. And to think everyone thought we'd cave. They obviously didn't know who we were.

 

[A320 Driver]

No driver. We have ONE CBA. You're wrong again.

We have two Collective Bargaining Agreements and one Transition Agreement. How am I wrong? Or did you guys get LOA 93 overnight, because we damn sure didn't get parity.

Driver

 

[jimntx]

Well, here we go again. Any judge which does not agree 100% with the USAPA stance is "incompetent, biased, on the take, (fill in the blank with negative adjective of your choice)." The thrill is gone, but the melody lingers on. "We are right. The rest of the world is wrong, and sooner or later we will find an honest judge who will agree with us."

I was always taught that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the first sign of insanity.

 

[hp_fa]

I am coming out of my self-imposed exile and simply want to award the Post of the Day award to Reed Richards. Reed and I often saw things very differently and politely disagreed, but he nailed it with this post.

I am not going to congratulate the winners, nor am I going to console the losers. What I will do is suggest that everyone take a look in the mirror and if you don't like what you see than resolve to do something to improve what it is you see.

John

Sad day for the union and the East pilots today. I am embarrassed. I just don’t see any way to put a positive spin on a court ordered injunction. And it would appear from the woefully inadequate comm. put out a few hours ago that Cleary and Theuer still think there is some “play” left with the Judge. Better fly the aircraft guys, all else is trivial. This is big boy stuff. Cross the injunction with stupid inaction, and you are facing possible personal sanctions, at your own expense, outside the RLA protections (for lack of a better word.)

Next shoe to fall will be Cleary’s “ego” case in NY, paid for by dues we don’t have. That will be followed shortly by the NMB parking us in negotiations. What was Cleary thinking, blind siding the Mediator with that filing? The NMB does not like surprises, and they sure are not going to release anyone to strike with this type of misguided lawsuits being brought. Seham "told you so."

The really sad thing is there is indeed a problem with the safety culture here at US Airways. I am not sure it poses an immediate threat to safety, but we are setting ourselves up for later problems. Professionally, we all (the entire Company) could have benefited from a resolution of the safety culture problems. But there were those that saw it as an opportunity to do some really stupid and observable actions. And then our own union sits by and watches as a couple of soldiers get whacked for not doing distance learning. Tragic. You would have thought McKee could have “made a call” a few days before the deadline and gotten a list of names to warn. Guess he was too busy writing hate mail to the Company every Saturday night. Yeah, I hate them too, but again, flying the airplane comes first, and allowing some good folks to walk into the propeller for show is inexcusable. Plastering a photo of one pilot’s family in campaign emails was a low point in USAPA. Sure you will all jump on my low point reference.

LOA 93 will probably be a loss, but the actual decision is not out. As I have said before, the West will know first exactly when it is finished. But they (also) have their own malcontents playing games with false bravado on the win/loss bragging rights. You can be sure Cleary will overplay any win, no matter how small when it comes out. He cannot help himself.

Silver could speak any day, but as Parker has accurately said (and he has brilliantly controlled the timeline by filing that case) we are years away from a contract.

As a good friend of mine keeps saying, "Santa aint coming anytime soon, and if he does it won’t be enough." Especially since Rocky and Bullwinkle down at Woodlawn keep shooting at the reindeer.

RR

 

[cactusboy53]

We have two Collective Bargaining Agreements and one Transition Agreement. How am I wrong? Or did you guys get LOA 93 overnight, because we damn sure didn't get parity.

Driver

Driver;
The NMB declared our group to be a SINGLE CARRIER. We have ONE CERTIFICATE. It would be unprecedented for the NMB to declare Single Carrier and then reverse. By the very act of a union petitioning such a n act would be a DFR against the new CBA.

Again, you can not put the toothpaste back in the tube after you have squeezed (and boy haven't you squeezed!).

CB

 

[767jetz]

Hang your heads in shame Easties, this is YOUR fault.

They will run for cover until the dust settles. Then watch for them to return in droves, possibly with new screen names, with the same old propaganda. Notice how Hate, Black Swan, Luvthe9, and others are absent with any comment on how wrong they were. Yet they are the loudest crybabies for the USAPA cause.

 

[767jetz]

LOL, Poor Pollo. You are so owned.

Only thing I am embarrassed about is that you are a fellow carbon based organism.

Keep seething, its funny watching you always be wrong.

Boy, you can say that again. He is coming unglued with some off the wall stuff in his posts. References to pregnant women and the IRS???? :blink: I think it's time for him to call EAP. Definitely needs to lay off the sauce. Maybe he's being investigated by the IRS and this injuction just pushed him over the edge.

I must say though, I love to see such arrogance pounded into the dirt! 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

We have two Collective Bargaining Agreements and one Transition Agreement. How am I wrong?

Or do you have 1 Contract Bargaining Agent and no Tentative Agreement?

So whoever you said was wrong was right AND you're right - you're each using a different meaning of CBA

CBA = Contract Bargaining Agent OR Collective Bargaining Agreement.
TA = Transition Agreement OR Tentative Agreement.

Jim

 

[apollo]

Boy, you can say that again. He is coming unglued with some off the wall stuff in his posts. References to pregnant women and the IRS???? :blink: I think it's time for him to call EAP. Definitely needs to lay off the sauce. Maybe he's being investigated by the IRS and this injuction just pushed him over the edge.

I must say though, I love to see such arrogance pounded into the dirt! 😉

Off roading?

 

[Piedmont1984]

I will second that - post #130 by Reed Richards needed to be said and was on the mark.

So where do we in the east go from here? Someone on another forum said that the unity wad between east and west has been shot. It will take the next generation of pilots on this property to repair what has been shattered. If the east loses LOA93 then it's reasonable to speculate that the esprit de corps wad will have been shot as well. Resignation and apathy will prevail. In fact it has already begun if you consider the level of participation in the CLT domicile elections last month.

A bunker mentality is beginning to overtake the boys at HQ, which increasingly renders this leadership team ineffectual and irrelevant.

If the men leading this union truly care about doing what is best for the membership, rather than protecting their positions, I would urge them to seriously consider resigning from their offices and calling for an early, special election.

They can go ahead and run for the same office as well, if they feel they have the support. But it's time to hit the reset button.

 

[Pi brat]

This has been one hell of a run. Congrats West. We've stopped the barbarians.

Please tell me what the west won from this.

 

[cactusboy53]

Please tell me what the west won from this.

No DOH cram down, AND the satisfaction that we remain on legal, moral & ethical high ground (collectively speaking, of course). Some of your troop say "Addington is dead", and yet it is mentioned in Silver's case and in this case. Addington and the Nicolau are very much alive. USAPA's lead counsel is about to depart with over 10 million dollars of "our dues money", and has produced nothing by DELAY.

What have you won? Perhaps a call back from furlough to the new merged airline. Perhaps the gain or retention of the left seat at LESS than what SWAL FO's make. Only to have the Nicolau cemented in your contract future. And as always: At what cost? Continue.....

 

[cleardirect]

After reading this judge's 45 pages I can not wait to see usapa's reaction. I did not see a single sentence in that entire document that Cleary could spin as a win. This was a total bit#$ slap on of the union and the east pilots.

Just to be a little in your face here. What is it you guys always say? The clerks of the federal district court spanked all over usapa, Cleary, Kubik and the new lawyers.

This is what the judge thought of usapa defense. How much money was spent for this kind of legal advice?

The limited evidence presented by Defendants regarding US Airways’s
conduct allegedly in violation of the RLA – which primarily consisted of the testimony of one
pilot who was taken off of flying status for 20 days for refusing to fly a certain aircraft which she
believed was unsafe, even though it was a legal aircraft (Hearing Tr. I at 202) and another pilot
whose pay was docked for not being available after he accepted the scheduler’s offer to refuse to
fly a certain flight based on fatigue (Hearing Tr. II at 218) – is greatly outweighed by all of the
evidence favoring an injunction.10

That's it, usapa entire defense was I'm tired and I don't think the aircraft was safe? A defense that was so weak the company did not even bother to cross examine these 2 "star" witnesses. This is embarrassing for the union and for the lawyers and for the leadership. It is also embarrassing to be a US airways pilot.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Please tell me what the west won from this.

Come on PI, surely you can appreciate that any loss for USAPA is a win for the west pilots. USAPA has taken every possible step, legal and illegal, to try and force the company to accept a DOH seniority scheme. They sent a letter to management threatening a strike (after being released to self-help of course) because of $eham’s interpretation of the 9th’s ruling on ripeness. They have filed a suit against the company for violation of the status quo because the company refuses to accept the NIC. USAPA has instigated or condoned pilots illegally damaging company operations in the hopes that Management would buckle under the pressure and give USAPA it’s DOH fantasy list. They have gone out on the farthest possible and most unstable limb by seeking the LOA93 arbitration in the hopes of some miracle win that would give them and excuse for not negotiating a JCBA. Win or lose, they used the LOA93 action to convince enough east pilots to hold on to a hope for a better outcome rather than forcing USAPA to accept the NIC and move on with getting a better contract.

Every one of the aforementioned actions was intended to harm the west pilots directly or indirectly through Management capitulations. If Management didn’t believe the west pilots had the strength and unity to fight for the NIC, they may have (doubtful, but possible) accepted USAPA’s demands just so they could finally get a fully integrated pilot workforce and could put to rest the TA once and for all. Furthermore, the injunction puts USAPA into a very precarious position going forward. They already forfeited most of their negotiating leverage and now they have lost even more leverage. Management has a powerful and lucrative bargaining chip with the addition of the injunction and that will work out well for everyone who wants to see the pilots on a joint contract. Since Management knows that setting the NIC aside will equal a hybrid DFR claim by the west, this foolhardy and illegal work action has all but guaranteed that the NIC will be in the JCBA (not that there was any doubt to begin with).

It’s hard to imagine how USAPA could be in worse shape at this point other than if/when the LOA 93 decision comes out in favor of Management’s interpretation of the language. After that, it’s all downhill from there. The NY status quo case never had a chance to begin with, but it certainly has cost USAPA a lot of money. Judge Silver has already declared the DJ ripe and will very likely close the door on any hopes of USAPA getting a DOH contract. The NMB negotiations will not yield USAPA any wins once the outcome of the DJ case becomes clearer. And, on top of all that it would seem that USAPA is spinning out of control financially. USAPA has more legal matters before federal judges than America has ongoing military combat theatres and their financial pockets are very shallow by comparison. Plus, now they have employed the services of a law firm and a CPA firm to investigate the billing practices of their once superstar attorney who was supposed to deliver the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. This is all exceedingly bad news for USAPA, which by default is good news for west pilots and Management. That supposed win at the 9th isn’t going to carry the misplaced optimism much farther in the face of all this. Now who was it that said 2011 was going to be a very bad year for USAPA, oh that’s right that was me. That doesn’t make me special, it just means I have kept my eyes open and have objectively evaluated USAPA’s strategy, which spelled disaster from the beginning.

 

[Pi brat]

Actually, clear, in discussing the points USAPA raised the Judge rejected the "unclean hands" argument. Basically, even if the company was violating the status quo requirement, the union is not entitled to also violate the status quo requirement. He offered no opinion on whether the company had also violated the status quo requirement. At least, that's my reading of the ruling.

Jim

See Pie, I do correct westies. I just don't do it for your benefit.

Ah yes, old Jimbo, fair and balanced. I think I will just call you Fox News.