Is Affirmative Action another racist prossevive program?

[Ms Tree]

I have them all the time and that's what frightens the established parties is that the number of free thinkers is growing despite attempts to enslave the population with Government handouts.

I was referring to Dells post. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Clearly you haven't read the words of Malcolm X! His well known quote "By any means necessary" refers not to armed insurrection but to building economic clout. He wanted more guys like the guy running BET, Bob Johnson as the way to break down the barriers of racism. His point of view has been proven to be correct. The head of BET may indeed be black but he's a rich black guy now and when he talks people listen. Do you really think Trump or Perot would had a minute of free TV time if they weren't worth billions?

As if Jul4, 1964 whites were hiring blacks by the hand full and rolling out the welcome mat. I guess the NG could have gone home and nothing would have happened to the 9 young children that they escorted in huh? With out AA or some facsimile Mr.s Johnson and BET would have happened quite a bit later in life if at all. Women were granted suffrage in 1920 and they still don't earn what men do. Blacks were not going to build econimic clout in a system that was stacked against them. It would have taken decades longer than it did to get to where they are now.

I'm not sure why it wouldn't be Constitutional? Many and I count myself among them feel that the use of Executive orders is unconstitutional and that any President going forward should issue only one more Executive Order repealing all prior executive orders.

I do not know why were are talking about EO's. This was legislation passed by Congress was it not?

Never said it was a bad idea I said it was racist! When you implement something like AA you are say to the group that benefits from it "You dumb N-word you'll NEVER be a success because you're just another stupid nappy headed knuckle dragger, so since we are all nice rich white people we'll help you out." IMO anyone who is white and thinks AA is a good idea had best go put on the Klan robes and fess up that you think blacks are inferior. Logic would dictate that if you feel you have to attempt to legislate equality than you must think that the group in question is inferior to you and that is what Affirmative Action is. The white majority, when it created Affirmative Action codified their belief that the black man cannot succeed on his own, requires help and it doesn't get anymore racist then that.

So a racist idea is a good idea? Are you serious? I do not recall a racist idea that was ever a good idea. Perhaps you can give me an example? Sure, all us white crackers who believe in AA were saying just that. Klan robes? Lets just raise the Union Jack and call it a day. Must be lovely to live in a black and white world (no pun intended). You are quite a piece of work. With out the full weight of the law, whites were not about to mingle with blacks unless they wanted to. There would probably still be restaurants who would not serve blacks or if they did, it would be in the back. Eventually blacks will be considered equal in this country by nearly everyone. How ever racism is still quite prevalent in this country just as sexism is. It's a long road we are on.

If I were President in the early 1960's I would have lobbied very strongly for the Civil Rights act but would but not issued the Executive Orders that led to Affirmative Action. Neither would I have remained silent. I would have been on the road using the worlds biggest bully pulpit to promote equality and racial tolerance. My "hammer" would be basically "If you don't want the Federal Government crawling up your ass you as Governors, Legislators, Senator, Council People had best get with the program or you'll be filling potholes and building schools with your own money." I have long held the belief that the threat of government intervention is usually far worse in peoples minds then the actuality of it ever will be. ObamaCare is a classic example. Once implemented, the result will likely not be nearly as bad as people think. However it won't solve much either.

Your ignorance of the situation appalling. Slavery was abolished in the 1860s. Black were still treated as second class citizens through the 60's.

Lets take AR as an example. In 1954 the SCOTUS rules that segregated schools were not constitutional in Brown v Board of Ed. It was against the law. The School board said they would comply with the ruling. In 1956 27 students were turned down registration in violation of the law. the NAACP filed a case on behalf of 33 students who were denied entrance into a all white school. The judge dismissed the suit ". A local group of bigots decided that it would not be a good idea to integrate right then and asked for an injunction prohibiting the students from going to school. The injunction was granted on the basis that it "could lead to violence". The Federal courts told the local chancellor who granted the injunction to pound sand. The nine students who went to Little Rock high needed military armed escort to go to school. Even though the full weight of the US Federal government said this was the law, they need a armed escort to go to school. One of the students, Miss Brown was taunted by white students, she dumps some pasta sauce on her tormentor and ends up getting suspended for 6 days. After more altercations with white students, she ends up getting suspended and sent back to Lincoln high. I wonder what happened to the white students. Nah. We all know that. In 1957 a Federal District Judge Harry Lemley grants the delay of integration until January, 1961, stating that while black students have a constitutional right to attend white schools, the "time has not come for them to enjoy that right." The NAACP appeals. The appeals court told Lemley to pound sand as well. There was a special election held on the integration of the schools. The results were hardly surprising. 129,470 to 7,561. Come on Sparrow, guess which were for and which were against.

Then tell me again that your request from the bully pulpit would have had any effect what so ever. The full force of the Federal government was needed to get nine students to school. And you think threats from the POTUS would convince people to let blacks eat with them in the restaurant, drink from the same fountain, work side by side? Please tell me you are not that naive.

Legislating, or attempting to legislate morality has been shown to be a failure with Prohibition, Prostitution and the current insane war on drugs along with Affirmative Action stand as stark reminders of this fact. AA does nothing IMO to decrease the amount of institutionalized racism as in fact it perpetuates the very thing it seeks to eliminate.

AA and CR had nothing to do with legislating morality. No one is telling the KKK that they cannot be ignorant bigots. What the legislation is telling them is that if they are going to open a business they cannot apply their bigotry to their hiring practices. Was it abused. Yes. Does it need to be altered or possible abolished. Yes. Was it needed to get the ball rolling. Yes. The American people were not going to allow blacks to integrate into society with out the full force of the Federal Government carrying a bat. Little Rock was proof of that.

You can be a bigot all you want in your private and public life. The law guarantees that. You cannot conduct business that way.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Very eloquent post, however completely off point. ANY law or rule that singles out any one group for either benefit or restriction is discriminatory and/or racist by its very nature.

It's all great, grand & wonderful that you know civil rights minutia, oddly enough so do I. SO WHAT! It had/has nothing to do with my ptrmise that Affirmative Action is detrimental to the goal of racial equality.

Want a true example of what I mean? I worked for a very well known company with a sterling record of treating minorities well. So they sit us down and we get a presentation on a new company wide program called "Workforce 2000" the goal of the program was for our company to mirror the demographics of the cities where we had a major presence. I was in PHL at the time. In PHL the ratio was 55% Minority, 45% Majority/ Then there was a similar gender identifier as well So every individual got a classification. I was M5 (White Male). So I'm taking all of this in and I'm thinking OK sounds like a noble effort.

Fast forward about 5 months. We are growing like crazy. We sold a whole bunch of contracts that required entry level people. At the wages paid we were having some trouble attracting good people. Since we were at the end of a subway line that started in what we would now call "The Hood" we were quite successful attracting people of color for these entry level jobs. Then we got the "Diversity" memo. Turns out we had nearly 65% of the hourly workforce was black and we were to stop hiring blacks. Turns out that Work Force 2000 was also broken out by job class. If we wanted to hire a person of color in what we called "Production" we now had to get approval from Corporate HQ.

Now fast forward to how this effected me directly. After about 18 months of this program our production manager leaves. Nice lady, she was an M1 (Minority Female) in Senior local Management. I was approached and asked "Are you interested", I said "Sure"! So a week goes by and nothing, not a peep. No interview, Nothing, Nada. So I asked the guy who was pushing for me what the deal was and I will never forget his reply. "Bob, I'm sorry but you aren't even getting an interview. Seems I talked out of turn and got my wrist slapped as we are only to interview M1 candidates". Ignore for a minute my status as an M5, think about this. No Majority Females, Minority Males or any other group except Minority Females. PERIOD!

This is but one personal example of how a good idea for a noble cause gets perverted and turns into a debacle of epic proportions. This program lasted for several years. I was told, "Bob, you'll never be promoted unless you relocate into an office that needs M5 Managers."

So now fast forward to today where we now have the creeping crud of credentialism. All of these so called "Credentials" are another unintended consequence on AA. They exist not to determine a level of competence but to keep a Corporation out of a Federal EEOC complaint. I am a:
Certified Digital Imaging Architect, Certified Technical Trainer, Certified Color Image Profession and to be earn my A+ Certification, then onto Network+ and finally MCSE.

Why? Because in order to eat and live in doors they are now pretty much required for the reasons stated above. I'll have no greater knowledge than I have at this very moment. I'll just be able to prove that I can study and pass a test. All of this so called education will cost me about five grand and for what? We used to joke that the CNE credential stood for "Certified No Experience" it's actually "Certified Network Engineer". I stopped seeking credentials when I ran into the manager of my parking garage when I worked in PHL. I had an issues and Larry resolved it quickly and handed me his card just in case I needed him. At the end of his name were the initials "CPFM" and I inquired about it and he very proudly said "Oh I'm a Certified Parking Facility Manager". Stunned I replied "Oh good for you" and left.

Excuse Me!!! WTF qualifications does one need to become a CPFM. Well if you're curious you can GO HERE and see that I'm not making this up.

This is the end result of Nanny State Liberalism run amok as usual. In fact here's a good slogan for my liberal friends

Liberals - Paving the road to hell with Good Intentions since FDR.

 

[Ms Tree]

It has everything to do with AA.

Sounds to me that you worked for a company run by a bunch idiots. What else is new?

How may blacks/minorities do you think were working for your company in 1961? How many black/minority CFO's of fortune 500 companies were there? How may executives? Pilots? Business owners? School principles? Teachers? College deans? Engineers? Ship captains?

 

[SparrowHawk]

It has everything to do with AA.

Sounds to me that you worked for a company run by a bunch idiots. What else is new?

How may blacks/minorities do you think were working for your company in 1961? How many black/minority CFO's of fortune 500 companies were there? How may executives? Pilots? Business owners? School principles? Teachers? College deans? Engineers? Ship captains?

well the company in question is the ONLY company is US business history to regain market share in an industry targeted by the Japanese so you're full of feces on that point.

I was 6 in 1961 so I really don't give a rat's arse. Here's the fundamental difference between you and I.

I believe in Rosa Parks, The Freedom Riders, MLK, Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, Medgar Evers and all of their followers who rose up in righteous indignation over the conditions facing the black man since the end of the civil war. ever stop and ponder that these brave men and women were the "Tea Party" of their generation, albeit a bit darker skinned than most Tea Party members of today?

You OTOH believe that only drones in Washington DC who feed at the Government trough of waste, sloth and indifference have access to the Oracle of Knowledge and therefore are all knowing, all seeing & all powerful with a pox on the house of those who think differently from them as to what is best for the citizens of our nation.

 

[Ms Tree]

well the company in question is the ONLY company is US business history to regain market share in an industry targeted by the Japanese so you're full of feces on that point.

And yet they decided on a brilliant hiring practices as the one you described. Definitely the work of a brilliant leadership.

I was 6 in 1961 so I really don't give a rat's arse. Here's the fundamental difference between you and I.

Yes I now you don't care. Your beliefs have made that abundantly clear.

I believe in Rosa Parks, The Freedom Riders, MLK, Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, Medgar Evers and all of their followers who rose up in righteous indignation over the conditions facing the black man since the end of the civil war. ever stop and ponder that these brave men and women were the "Tea Party" of their generation, albeit a bit darker skinned than most Tea Party members of today?

I would never equate the actions of those you mentioned with those you mentioned much less put their names in the same sentence with them.

You OTOH believe that only drones in Washington DC who feed at the Government trough of waste, sloth and indifference have access to the Oracle of Knowledge and therefore are all knowing, all seeing & all powerful with a pox on the house of those who think differently from them as to what is best for the citizens of our nation.

You assumed wrong. I'm am sure that it will not be the last time.

 

[SparrowHawk]

And yet they decided on a brilliant hiring practices as the one you described. Definitely the work of a brilliant leadership.

Well AFAIK, Vernon Jordan still sits on the Board of Directors of this Company and the current head of AARP was the number three guy there during my tenure and they made money EVERY Year. Never been bankrupt, created a product & market that is world wide.

Which if you think about it proves that even the brightest & best can succumb to the stupidity of a Federal Government run amok.



Liberals - Paving the road to hell with Good Intentions since FDR.

 

[Ms Tree]

What's wrong with bankruptcy? That would just mean he took risks right?

It's obvious we are not getting any where with this. I see little point to continue.

 

[SparrowHawk]

What's wrong with bankruptcy? That would just mean he took risks right?

It's obvious we are not getting any where with this. I see little point to continue.

Well you've yet to dispute my contention that programs such as Affirmative Action are inherently racist. I believe that civil rights are individual rights and that government policies should not advocate group rights over individual rights.

La Shawn Barber's Corner A snippet of her writings

There just aren’t enough blacks competitive with whites to go around, so in order to meet some elusive skin color goal, businesses and government must lower hiring and admissions standards for blacks. (Lowering standards for all would be impractical, not to mention detrimental.) This is fact, not opinion. Black affirmative action proponents know this, and they also know that race-neutral policies will not work to their benefit, at least not in the short run. It has nothing to do with white people “oppressing” or “discriminating” against them.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Is MEA magazine inherently racist?

Would they have considered any white males, like me and you, for their award?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Is MEA magazine inherently racist?

Would they have considered any white males, like me and you, for their award?

Dog, It's fine line to be sure.

MEA Magazine has target audiences, one of which is Minority Business Women. As to racism when I looked at the video of the event Asians were conspicuous in their absence.

The primary differentiator is that Affirmative Action is a law instituted by the government and MEA and it's publication is a private organization.

However to your point I think one could easily make a reverse racism argument. One could also make the assertion that organizations like MEA exist because of AA. Skin color diversity-obsessed folks talk incessantly about race and promote it every chance they get. But if you’re going to promote skin color and “cultural” distinctions among students yet discourage them from talking about all aspects of race and culture, for example, what’s the point?

There isn’t supposed to be a point. That’s the point. Critical thinking, as defined by liberals, is what they want you to think; hence, thought control through speech codes. Critical thinking is acknowledging the sins of white people in particular and America in general. Period.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Could you or I have won the MEA award?

Not to discredit your friend and her accomplishments.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Could you or I have won the MEA award?

Not to discredit your friend and her accomplishments.

I think the short answer is a resounding NO, but not because of race but gender.

I didn't take the question as an affront to my friend. She is where she is career wise as a result of her efforts and no one can take that from her.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Last minute and a half kinda sums up Affirmative Action. Hell even the Blacks, Hispanics and Asians are figuring it out. Not Suitable for work. Rough Language, but funny and not PC