It's official!

[Bob Owens]

Odds are the Voided votes were No votes. 

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I have no words.

 

[jimntx]

Well they can kiss $80 million goodbye and they only thing the arbiter will be ruling on is the economic issues.

Actually, from what I saw from the union before the vote, the negotiated TA was worth $92 million more than an arbitrator can legally award.  I hope everyone who voted no is happy.  As IORFA suggested, I think we must fear for the sanity or the mental acuity of 8196 of our fellow workers.
 
I was going to take a little pride in the fact Dallas, both domestic and International, voted for the TA.  Then I realized that 1669 of the 4969 f/as (per the online base rosters) in the 2 bases didn't even bother to vote!  That's 34% of the f/as.  Did they think this was something unimportant like a U.S. Presidential election?

 

[commavia]

As I said elsewhere ... nearly every constituency other than the Facebook experts roundly agreed that there is no chance of the contract coming out of binding arbitration being as good, let alone better, than this deal - I guess we'll soon see if they're correct.  Definitely quite sad for AA's flight attendants.

 

[jimntx]

 
As I said elsewhere ... nearly every constituency other than the Facebook experts roundly agreed that there is no chance of the contract coming out of binding arbitration being as good, let alone better, than this deal - I guess we'll soon see if they're correct.  Definitely quite sad for AA's flight attendants.
 

No, we won't.  It is guaranteed that the arbitrated contract will not be worth as much as the negotiated one.  If the TA awarded you a $7/hour raise, but the "industry standard/average/whatever" is only $5/hr over what you are currently making then the arbitrator under the law can only award a maximum raise of $5/hr.  That's an oversimplification of the law, but it works out to that in essence.  Industry standard prevails in arbitration.

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA FAs should be grateful that DL helped push the "standard/average/whatever" up for them.

I do have to agree that it is mind-numbing that AA FAs did not understand the language that essentially says they can't do better than what was offered.

The union has to bear responsibility for negotiating something they could not effectively communicate to their members.

 

[usfliboi]

As USAirways afa did before and didn't learn...this time around we will lose monies instead of shifting around. A good raw lesson is getting ready to be taught...those who voted "no" still think that we won in the last go around and we didn't....now they need to be taught a lesson.....

 

[Duke787]

There goes the $2 billion/year in synergies. The company has motivations to get to an agreement as well. 
 
No profit sharing and DOS +5 years.  2020 amendable date???
 
Profit sharing has no real cost since it doesn't come out of operations. Workers should share in the gains if they are still working under concessions. 
 
SWA not included in industry average.
 
Contract is industry leading compared to an amendable contract, not a current one. It could easily go from industry leading to bottom of the industry in less than a week but they would be stuck with it till nearly 2020
 
That amendable contract this was compared to has profit sharing.
 
If they had signed that deal and tomorrow UAL signed one that had slightly higher wages AND Profit sharing, AND more vacation you wouldn't be praising this deal. 
 
Easy to fix and it won't cost them a dime out of their operations, cut the years and include profit sharing.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

Each FA just lost $17k a year in contract improvements and you say with all your airline CEO experience that profit sharing is an easy fix, and if UAL gets a better contract AA won't be industry leading anymore. It's this kind of thinking that has cost mechanics $40k each in 2010, and you being the airline oracle, should have seen that bankruptcy was coming our way $22b in debt and all the other airlines had cut pensions and retiree medical.

In a world with unicorns and chocolate rivers your thinking is right on, but this is the real world where the FAs go to arbitration where they will get an average of delta and united and still get a 5 year deal amendable in 2020. NOT mediation where they renegotiate a better deal.

I hope I'm wrong and AA turns around and gives profit sharing to all but I think that is unlikely.

A side note is the TWU 2010 TA was a crap contract, but the FA contract was a good deal better then what any arbitrator is going. To give you.

 

[blue collar]

No, we won't.  It is guaranteed that the arbitrated contract will not be worth as much as the negotiated one.  If the TA awarded you a $7/hour raise, but the "industry standard/average/whatever" is only $5/hr over what you are currently making then the arbitrator under the law can only award a maximum raise of $5/hr.  That's an oversimplification of the law, but it works out to that in essence.  Industry standard prevails in arbitration.

Not always. WN dispatchers argued that their job was the same as UPS' dispatchers, and were awarded a higher rate when they went into binding arbitration, rather than 'industry standard'. In most cases it doesn't seem to work that way, I suppose it all depends on who's arguing for your side. Good luck to you all.

 

[700UW]

You are all not getting it, they are built in parameters on the arbitration, they are going to lose money as there is a formula on how the compensation will be determined.

 

[IORFA]

BUT, the NPA specifically states DL and UA. Not WN!

 

[AirLUVer]

Not always. WN dispatchers argued that their job was the same as UPS' dispatchers, and were awarded a higher rate when they went into binding arbitration, rather than 'industry standard'. In most cases it doesn't seem to work that way, I suppose it all depends on who's arguing for your side. Good luck to you all.

It is about what was ALREADY negotiated in the protocol agreement for what other airlines will be used in comparison.

 

[700UW]

Statement from Lara Glading:
 
http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1450c9c25bd3b5096022a9f71&id=59ed60ad4a

 

[Duke787]

It would be in our best interests as well for the FAs to get profit sharing. AA is on course to being a $50 billion a year company with a 10% margin. Thats $5 billion a year in profits and you want that we should all sit that out till 2020? The party could be over by then.

Or you can languish in negotiations for another 5 years and not get a pay raise/ better work rules and still not get profit sharing and AA has already proven it doesn't need a joint contract to make money. You don't recall spending 4 years in negotiations only to get a bankruptcy contract.

Get out of candy land and join the real world.

 

[boston]

To vote against your self interest is beyond me, and the juvenile behavior of "If I cant have it, you cant have it". I kid you not, the Purser I flew yesterday all 1.5 yrs seniority, voted no because she wouldn't be able to hold a purser position ( could care less if it was a L/US thing), pay is way to low, she has to many school loans out and its to difficult, hates her base, She insisted her predecessors, never experienced such an inflation rate and wouldn't hear one word of how it used to be. The best part was, she put an application in to Delta, when asked if she had read the comparison sheet, she responded, I already know what they offer.  I said good luck,  Delta isn't  to fond of employees coming from unionized companies. Her response was " I know how to interview". This person, would do better at another company..no love lost!!!!