JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

We could easily become friends if you would be truthful more often. Since the possibility does always exist that you could have at least a small influence on our talks and therefore my personal financial security I have to continue to call you out when you make things up or over exaggerate.
Let me know when you want to have an honest and civil debate or conversation about that Pension of yours. I always have questions still about it even if I pretty much have made my position clear.

WeAAsles, This is not the first agreement, and yes I know what you mean by that statement. It is in fact AMFA's 3rd section 6 nego's.  Although I will admit that the last 2 section 6's were not a full blown open every single article as both sides were comfy with most all the articles as they are. One of the 2 last sec 6's was an opening of all articles but almost all of them were left alone after addressed and discussed.  Thx for the good wishes and as well good luck to you guys.  I will leave you with some kudos, this contract is in fact the longest and hardest fought for contract since I have been here. The company is asking for the world and were not willing to give it to them, they, the company needs to get more reasonable in these record times of profits. With the mediators this has helped in that matter.  Nothing will be decided behind closed doors as they were with the teamsters contract after contract. It will in fact be the members that make any final decision of any changes to the contract, period. If anyone from AMFA would even try to make a deal behind closed doors will be removed so quickly it would make their head spin. Case and point one of our ALR's were removed very quickly for something he did in discussions and emails in private. You see with the independent representation we can do that. Can you guys do that with your current representation? Can US guys do it with their current representation?  I will save you the time, that's what I thought...

We already had that conversation. I dont believe any twu peeps should be horse collared into this dinosaur. I suspect the twu will make it optional but then withold info about it to hoodwink hundreds of ignorant peeps.
The reality is that the fund has already sunk to 95% funding, actually, but the best method puts it at 101%, down 8% over the last 3 years. 2 benefit cuts since 2003, and another one within 5 years. The math problem is similar to the social security ponzie scheme. over 200,000 but only 75,000 forced to contribute. Most also dont know that the plan gets up to a 40% tax if you want your spouse to get your benefits. this dont affect peeps like me or you who are in the "Hello Ladies" group, preferably polish or russian, but for the married peeps it is a price too high.
Never mind the credit cuts due to bars to be crossed and possible suspensions if you go back to work.

i know one guy who thought he was gonna get $1,000 a month but after all the fees and taxes he claimed he only got $143. Not sure what happened, maybe he didnt work the required 32 hours a week. It is all in the fine print and it pisses me off how republicans and right wing Labor orgs keep info from peeps.

 

[Worldport]

We already had that conversation. I dont believe any twu peeps should be horse collared into this dinosaur. I suspect the twu will make it optional but then withold info about it to hoodwink hundreds of ignorant peeps.
The reality is that the fund has already sunk to 95% funding, actually, but the best method puts it at 101%, down 8% over the last 3 years. 2 benefit cuts since 2003, and another one within 5 years. The math problem is similar to the social security ponzie scheme. over 200,000 but only 75,000 forced to contribute. Most also dont know that the plan gets up to a 40% tax if you want your spouse to get your benefits. this dont affect peeps like me or you who are in the "Hello Ladies" group, preferably polish or russian, but for the married peeps it is a price too high.
Never mind the credit cuts due to bars to be crossed and possible suspensions if you go back to work.

i know one guy who thought he was gonna get $1,000 a month but after all the fees and taxes he claimed he only got $143. Not sure what happened, maybe he didnt work the required 32 hours a week. It is all in the fine print and it pisses me off how republicans and right wing Labor orgs keep info from peeps.

Tim I remember only one cut.  From $1000 to to 143 seems a tad extreme. Another cut in 5 years yesterday you said 8 years. Stretching the truth or hitting those 64s  a little early are we?

 

[WeAAsles]

We already had that conversation. I dont believe any twu peeps should be horse collared into this dinosaur. I suspect the twu will make it optional but then withold info about it to hoodwink hundreds of ignorant peeps.
The reality is that the fund has already sunk to 95% funding, actually, but the best method puts it at 101%, down 8% over the last 3 years. 2 benefit cuts since 2003, and another one within 5 years. The math problem is similar to the social security ponzie scheme. over 200,000 but only 75,000 forced to contribute. Most also dont know that the plan gets up to a 40% tax if you want your spouse to get your benefits. this dont affect peeps like me or you who are in the "Hello Ladies" group, preferably polish or russian, but for the married peeps it is a price too high.
Never mind the credit cuts due to bars to be crossed and possible suspensions if you go back to work.
i know one guy who thought he was gonna get $1,000 a month but after all the fees and taxes he claimed he only got $143. Not sure what happened, maybe he didnt work the required 32 hours a week. It is all in the fine print and it pisses me off how republicans and right wing Labor orgs keep info from peeps.

The first thing people need to do is not just automatically take the word of one individual who has proven many times that he doesn't do the research. How many times has Tim publicly asked about the TWU Fleet AA agreement but never personally reads it himself?

Second read the information provided by the fund itself. Not saying to take it as gospel but read it. From there write down any questions you have and submit those to the fund administrators them self. When you receive your answers try to gain independent verification that the things they tell you are correct.

The way I see this is it's extremely important. This "could" be an option granted to us for a possibly more secure retirement. Or for the LAA members a forth leg on the chair.

Tim has shown that he over exaggerates and inflates his numbers to serve whatever agenda fits his narrative. Blind followers usually find themselves walking over the edge of cliffs. In a Union environment you don't get to chose whether or not to go over that cliff willingly. You're dragged over the edge by the majority.

http://mypension.iamnpf.org

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles, This is not the first agreement, and yes I know what you mean by that statement. It is in fact AMFA's 3rd section 6 nego's.  Although I will admit that the last 2 section 6's were not a full blown open every single article as both sides were comfy with most all the articles as they are. One of the 2 last sec 6's was an opening of all articles but almost all of them were left alone after addressed and discussed.  Thx for the good wishes and as well good luck to you guys.  I will leave you with some kudos, this contract is in fact the longest and hardest fought for contract since I have been here. The company is asking for the world and were not willing to give it to them, they, the company needs to get more reasonable in these record times of profits. With the mediators this has helped in that matter.  Nothing will be decided behind closed doors as they were with the teamsters contract after contract. It will in fact be the members that make any final decision of any changes to the contract, period. If anyone from AMFA would even try to make a deal behind closed doors will be removed so quickly it would make their head spin. Case and point one of our ALR's were removed very quickly for something he did in discussions and emails in private. You see with the independent representation we can do that. Can you guys do that with your current representation? Can US guys do it with their current representation?  I will save you the time, that's what I thought...

Never been interested in independence because my philosophy still says that there is strength in numbers.

Getting them all on the same page with that ideology is the biggest admitted difficulty though.

But good luck again with your independence.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim I remember only one cut.  From $1000 to to 143 seems a tad extreme. Another cut in 5 years yesterday you said 8 years. Stretching the truth or hitting those 64s  a little early are we?

You're noticing it I see. Good.

 

[Worldport]

You're noticing it I see. Good.

I knew it all along I just didn't want to believe it. Its like when the Japanese realized the Emperor was a mortal man by then they had already surrendered. I have a very small mind and could easily be swayed back into his camp if he came out with one big production video

 

[WeAAsles]

I knew it all along I just didn't want to believe it. Its like when the Japanese realized the Emperor was a mortal man by then they had already surrendered

You see it because you're smart. Others just want to believe what someone tells them because they either speak or write well.

The question they all need to learn to ask is "Prove it"

Oh and BTW. The funding level has gone down. 105% to 101% in the last 3 years. Not 110% to 101% like Tim also has exaggerated. And yes that funding loss should concern me if I was part of the plan? "IF" we did gain access (TWU) yes that percentage would dramatically increase but it still "might" not be enough to offset future cuts? Perhaps? Maybe? Who knows? Possibly?

 

[Worldport]

You see it because you're smart. Others just want to believe what someone tells them because they either speak or write well.

The question they all need to learn to ask is "Prove it"

Oh and BTW. The funding level has gone down. 105% to 101% in the last 3 years. Not 110% to 101% like Tim also has exaggerated. And yes that funding loss should concern me if I was part of the plan? "IF" we did gain access (TWU) yes that percentage would dramatically increase but it still "might" not be enough to offset future cuts? Perhaps? Maybe? Who knows? Possibly?

I'm stuck with it so I'm planning my retirement like it's not there. Tim is stuck with it too but he has said he is very,very well off. All kidding aside it should be an option for you guys anything else is b/s

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm stuck with it so I'm planning my retirement like it's not there. Tim is stuck with it too but he has said he is very,very well off. All kidding aside it should be an option for you guys anything else is b/s

I actually want it to be an option. Can't say it enough. I'd like that UAL deal.

A four legged stool doesn't wobble as much as a three legged one.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim I remember only one cut.  From $1000 to to 143 seems a tad extreme. Another cut in 5 years yesterday you said 8 years. Stretching the truth or hitting those 64s  a little early are we?

first cut was to the unborn, april, 2003. We were grandfathered on schedule A. Schedule B was born 2003 and pumped up the pension past 100% for a few years. 8 years later we got the drop dead letter abolishing A. I imagine the next whack may b to retiree pensions in about 3 years when the actual plan drags under 90%.
Warning Will Robinson!

 

[WeAAsles]

first cut was to the unborn, april, 2003. We were grandfathered on schedule A. Schedule B was born 2003 and pumped up the pension past 100% for a few years. 8 years later we got the drop dead letter abolishing A. I imagine the next whack may b to retiree pensions in about 3 years when the actual plan drags under 90%.
Warning Will Robinson!

And the fund currently holds almost 11 Billion dollars right?

Questions:

What companies currently contribute and what are their growth prospects?
What is the average age of those who are currently a part of the fund both drawing and contributing?
How solvent would the fund be if it gained near 20,000 TWU participants?
Which schedule would we fall under?

Another thought to consider Tim. AA is currently in growth mode and is hiring like crazy. If the company were to offer a decent buyout package what then would be the average age of the new participants? Before the hiring the average age at AA was around 50 YO. With a buyout could the average maybe drop below 40 YO this potentially propping up your retirement security in the fund?

If we don't come into the fund you "may" be assured of another cut which will affect you and yours? No skin off my apple I guess but you really don't seem to be thinking at all about your US Brothers and Sisters who you've worked with for how many years now?

Do you support the status quo then? You keep your pension and we'll keep our 401k match?

 

[Worldport]

first cut was to the unborn, april, 2003. We were grandfathered on schedule A. Schedule B was born 2003 and pumped up the pension past 100% for a few years. 8 years later we got the drop dead letter abolishing A. I imagine the next whack may b to retiree pensions in about 3 years when the actual plan drags under 90%.
Warning Will Robinson!

I Idolized Dr Smith he was awesome. 

 

[Worldport]

And the fund currently holds almost 11 Billion dollars right?

Questions:

What companies currently contribute and what are their growth prospects?
What is the average age of those who are currently a part of the fund both drawing and contributing?
How solvent would the fund be if it gained near 20,000 TWU participants?
Which schedule would we fall under?

Another thought to consider Tim. AA is currently in growth mode and is hiring like crazy. If the company were to offer a decent buyout package what then would be the average age of the new participants? Before the hiring the average age at AA was around 50 YO. With a buyout could the average maybe drop below 40 YO this potentially propping up your retirement security in the fund?

If we don't come into the fund you "may" be assured of another cut which will affect you and yours? No skin off my apple I guess but you really don't seem to be thinking at all about your US Brothers and Sisters who you've worked with for how many years now?

Do you support the status quo then? You keep your pension and we'll keep our 401k match?

 Did UAL's passenger service go into the plan?

 

[AANOTOK]

What would you consider a decent buyout package, W?
And on another note...do you feel we will get our prefund match back, or with each passing day does a tad more doubt set in/
Also, I do believe we will get some resemblance of our remaining equity, just not sure how much, and when. Thoughts?

 

[bob@las-AA]

What would you consider a decent buyout package, W?
And on another note...do you feel we will get our prefund match back, or with each passing day does a tad more doubt set in/
Also, I do believe we will get some resemblance of our remaining equity, just not sure how much, and when. Thoughts?

 
The question on my mine is since the TWU converted the shares into cash, and invested the whole thing, how are they doing to distribute it? The old formula will not work with future final distribution.