JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Kev3188]

You're right Kev. We need to let all these companies off the hook in providing us with a secure form of retirement. What were we thinking? Companies should have zero obligations after we leave the company after spending most of our lives in their service.

First smart thing they did was doing away with the gold watch. I was ecstatic that AA took away both my Pension and retiree medical. Better that the company is secure rather than me.

And I appreciate all perspectives and take all of them into consideration (When no emotions are attached)

Nobody said anything about letting any company "off he hook." That's a conclusion you jumped to on your own.

That said, if the discussion is about deferred compensation (and it is), then the question is which model gives workers more leverage, both individually and as a collective? The DB model comes up short, but companies know how attached workers are to the idea, so they hold it over their heads and get 'em to give back damn near everything else.


...and then they freeze or terminate the plan anyway...

 

[WeAAsles]

Nobody said anything about letting any company "off he hook." That's a conclusion you jumped to on your own.
That said, if the discussion is about deferred compensation (and it is), then the question is which model gives workers more leverage, both individually and as a collective? The DB model comes up short, but companies know how attached workers are to the idea, so they hold it over their heads and get 'em to give back damn near everything else.
...and then they freeze or terminate the plan anyway...

They do that with the help of courts because we're too stupid and apathetic to fight to try and change those laws. We are our own worst enemies and corporations love it and rely on it.

Anyway who cares right? It's gone now and there's no use crying over spilt milk. Let's move the conversation on to what they can take away next with our blessings.

 

[Worldport]

Nobody said anything about letting any company "off he hook." That's a conclusion you jumped to on your own.

That said, if the discussion is about deferred compensation (and it is), then the question is which model gives workers more leverage, both individually and as a collective? The DB model comes up short, but companies know how attached workers are to the idea, so they hold it over their heads and get 'em to give back damn near everything else.


...and then they freeze or terminate the plan anyway...

I know plenty of people past and present who's DB didn't come up short. Admitted our industry is not one of them, but some people are doing very well

 

[WeAAsles]

I know plenty of people past and present who's DB didn't come up short. Admitted our industry is not one of them, but some people are doing very well

So did my friends Dad who retired from AA back in 1978 who had a spectacular retirement and Pension.

 

[Kev3188]

Wicked.

Now tell me more about the 30 year current employee who may have to move into it. How long will he have to work to make the multiplier worth anything?

How about the 3 year guy; you know, the one you and I lament will never make this a career? He can get his money from AA /and/take it with him.

For "tweens" like you and I, the fixed contribution and match are fall more lucrative in the long run than anything else. Best of all, once the contribution/match is made, it's ours. Period. The market may fluctuate,mbut the company isn't going to come back after holding it over you for a lifetime and say "Oops, never mind."

 

[Worldport]

So did my friends Dad who retired from AA back in 1978 who had a spectacular retirement and Pension.

The country moving away from DBs just means more old people in poverty down the road.A lot of people live from paycheck to paycheck heck we used to have a matching plan and do you believe there were a lot not in it that's  the same as turning down a raise.The exception would be whoever  posts on this site, we are all to smart not to invest

 

[WeAAsles]

Wicked.
Now tell me more about the 30 year current employee who may have to move into it. How long will he have to work to make the multiplier worth anything?
How about the 3 year guy; you know, the one you and I lament will never make this a career? He can get his money from AA /and/take it with him.
For "tweens" like you and I, the fixed contribution and match are fall more lucrative in the long run than anything else. Best of all, once the contribution/match is made, it's ours. Period. The market may fluctuate,mbut the company isn't going to come back after holding it over you for a lifetime and say "Oops, never mind."

I'm sorry Kev. You're so right. If it wasn't for that damn pension as a Ramper I could have taken my skills over to just about anyone. ValueJet, Fronteir, Spirit, Swissport or Eulen America. That 3 year guy with his High School degree is going to do gangbusters when he moves on from this crummy company I work for. (The one that pays me two times the average now and close to three times in a few more months)

Unlike you I guess, I wish I still had my Pension for them to hold over me. (I had and have my 401k regardless)

 

[WeAAsles]

The country moving away from DBs just means more old people in poverty down the road.A lot of people live from paycheck to paycheck heck we used to have a matching plan and do you believe there were a lot not in it that's  the same as turning down a raise.The exception would be whoever  posts on this site, we are all to smart not to invest

Dude's hitting home runs today. Let's keep that guy on the plate.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW again Kev. To me as I see it you're advocating against having the "option" of joining the IAMPF? Do you have some kind of problem with being offered options?

If you do have a problem with that, maybe the Delta Cult-ture is beginning to rub off on you more than you think? (Nothing personal)

 

[Worldport]

Dude's hitting home runs today. Let's keep that guy on the plate.

What about my knocks on the union that you ignored what were they foul tips?

 

[WeAAsles]

What about my knocks on the union that you ignored what were they foul tips?

Worldport let me make something clear (again) about your pension. I know that it's taken hits. I know that it's shaky and may have to take hits again. I know that the IAM uses it as a selling tool. And the BIG ONE. I know that if we jump into it we're helping to prop it up for you.

I don't give a chit.

You see that's what being in a Union is REALLY all about. Trying to help each other. I know that if I and the people I work with "chose" to join it helps you with your retirement. Maybe it's nothing more than a few years more breathing room before the next chop? Maybe not?

Maybe Kev lost hope? Maybe he doesn't believe the IAM long term is going to be around or be able to get more members into the plan to help each other out? That "might" be his viewpoint, not mine.

Worldport I want to help you (Yea and Tim) retire. If that means maybe I'm sacrificing a few bucks out of my compensation again so what. I think I'll still survive.

 

[Worldport]

Worldport let me make something clear (again) about your pension. I know that it's taken hits. I know that it's shaky and may have to take hits again. I know that the IAM uses it as a selling tool. And the BIG ONE. I know that if we jump into it we're helping to prop it up for you.

I don't give a chit.

You see that's what being in a Union is REALLY all about. Trying to help each other. I know that if I and the people I work with "chose" to join it helps you with your retirement. Maybe it's nothing more than a few years more breathing room before the next chop? Maybe not?

Maybe Kev lost hope? Maybe he doesn't believe the IAM long term is going to be around or be able to get more members into the plan to help each other out? That "might" be his viewpoint, not mine.

Worldport I want to help you (Yea and Tim) retire. If that means maybe I'm sacrificing a few bucks out of my compensation again so what. I think I'll still survive.

Thank you but if you really want to help light a match to your unions friends a$$ and get me my raise.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thank you but if you really want to help light a match to your unions friends a$$ and get me my raise.

Beyond my control.

 

[Worldport]

Beyond my control.

Instead of a laundry basket Tim should have tote board behind him showing the money we are losing every day.Its really running up

 

[WeAAsles]

Instead of a laundry basket Tim should have tote board behind him showing the money we are losing every day.Its really running up

I'm sure Tim would make a much better advocate for the "I want my money now" crowd. I advocate they take as long as they need to get it done right.

Sorry.