JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[bob@las-AA]

I don't "think" they really do? But as our paid representative it's more of a formality probably than anything else?
If a Football player wins the Super Bowl does he need his Union or his Agent to have to agree for him to accept the ring?

Good analogy.

 

[chilokie1]

BTW Chil can you point out to the members on your thread that it's not exactly a big scandal that they chose to use a "neutral" Mediator/Arbitrator to settle any of the remaining differences and put it all together. There are huge differences between the way seniority is done on both sides for especially your group. And unless those issues were agreed to be decided on at the beginning by a coin toss, I doubt either side would want to move off their personal preference position.

So otherwise unless they went with that third party it would never get done. And of course it's also being done to protect people's elected positions let's not kid ourselves on that. If I was a TWU guy and agreed to go the IAM way maybe cause they bought me a few hookers and dinners (Or just liked their way better) what would happen to me next time the elections rolled around and I ended up on the shop floor? (Sugar in my gas tank)

So no of course I don't want to put my name on something we know is going to piss off a lot of people. Javits would be a better signature to put on there then mine.

 
LOL, I understand and agree the messenger right or wrong can do as much harm as good in 
this screwed up situation.  But I must respectfully decline, this all started the second we were
refused a vote on the association. I hate to say we told you so (I'am addressing the ass.) but
from the start we said the two contracts were too different to merge without one group taking
in the shorts on many issues because the company will not give us the best of both. How do
we think we can get a joint contract agreed upon by both unions that is passable by the
memberships of both unions and with all work groups. The biggest play to save elected positions
was the creation of the ASS to begin with, so when it was realized that it never would have been
passed and that the really big play the IAMPF was also in jeopardy, so the powers that be just chose
go ahead with the ASS. The seniority issue is huge issue, but in terms of the big picture it is
minuscule. If we can't agree amongst  ourselves what the best solution in terms of seniority how in
the hell do we think a joint agreement with the company involved on the big issues like scope and
retirement can happen. No Weasels, the powers to be made this bed it is up to our elected officials and perspective
officials to decide what is the best solution for "THEIR MEMBERS" because that is what we pay them for, not what
is best for the ASS. Trust is essential between all parties involved to get this accomplished, but that was 
thrown out the window as far as I'am concerned (and just about every other member I know) from 
the start when we read the letter from Jim Little and his IAM counterpart. The bottom of the letter clearly
explained the real reason for the ASS, hence our suspicious and conspiratorial attitudes.
Since the negotiation committees feel we do not need to know the specific disagreements on the seniority
issue or any other, why would I care if they lose their precious elected positions if they agree to
have a scapegoat make the decisions that allows the ASS to survive an anti-union hurdle. I call it
anti union because we were not allowed to vote to give them that power to do what is best for the ASS
over what is best for their members. So Weasels you are correct it is not a conspiracy, but I do believe 
it it not in the best interest of one membership TWU or IAM , which tells me one union or both is going
to up for a "failure to represent its membership lawsuit", right or wrong ultimately I'am afraid a court
will decide this or another issue down the road delaying a joint contract for YEARS! Sound familiar 
TWU members.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
LOL, I understand and agree the messenger right or wrong can do as much harm as good in 
this screwed up situation.  But I must respectfully decline, this all started the second we were
refused a vote on the association. I hate to say we told you so (I'am addressing the ass.) but
from the start we said the two contracts were too different to merge without one group taking
in the shorts on many issues because the company will not give us the best of both. How do
we think we can get a joint contract agreed upon by both unions that is passable by the
memberships of both unions and with all work groups. The biggest play to save elected positions
was the creation of the ASS to begin with, so when it was realized that it never would have been
passed and that the really big play the IAMPF was also in jeopardy, so the powers that be just chose
go ahead with the ASS. The seniority issue is huge issue, but in terms of the big picture it is
minuscule. If we can't agree amongst  ourselves what the best solution in terms of seniority how in
the hell do we think a joint agreement with the company involved on the big issues like scope and
retirement can happen. No Weasels, the powers to be made this bed it is up to our elected officials and perspective
officials to decide what is the best solution for "THEIR MEMBERS" because that is what we pay them for, not what
is best for the ASS. Trust is essential between all parties involved to get this accomplished, but that was 
thrown out the window as far as I'am concerned (and just about every other member I know) from 
the start when we read the letter from Jim Little and his IAM counterpart. The bottom of the letter clearly
explained the real reason for the ASS, hence our suspicious and conspiratorial attitudes.
Since the negotiation committees feel we do not need to know the specific disagreements on the seniority
issue or any other, why would I care if they lose their precious elected positions if they agree to
have a scapegoat make the decisions that allows the ASS to survive an anti-union hurdle. I call it
anti union because we were not allowed to vote to give them that power to do what is best for the ASS
over what is best for their members. So Weasels you are correct it is not a conspiracy, but I do believe 
it it not in the best interest of one membership TWU or IAM , which tells me one union or both is going
to up for a "failure to represent its membership lawsuit", right or wrong ultimately I'am afraid a court
will decide this or another issue down the road delaying a joint contract for YEARS! Sound familiar 
TWU members.

Very over the top Chil. Lot's and lot's of speculations you're throwing out there. A lot of this thread if you've been reading is trying to move forward on most items with the exception of mostly one guy who's been coming to your thread because he has an agenda against the IAM personally. And if they didn't get a neutral arbitrator to decide you might have a (slight) better case at suing for DFR? But I think with all the wealth of stories in the past regarding seniority, these guys are going to be very very very careful how it gets implemented leaving no room for a successful suit. Both Unions know very well by now that some members have Lawyers on their speed dials just itching to hit that button.

As far as this taking years? Nah. Not feeling it. Unless the "company" goes off in a direction that's totally unacceptable. But since I know you have zero trust for both Unions let me hit you with this one. You're in the TWU. Do you know how the top guys get raises? It's in the TWU constitution. Every year they do a snapshot of the average raises that the members they represent have gotten and whatever that percentage is they get that raise as well. So since its' one big conspiracy and everything is about the money, don't you think Lombardo, Samuelson, Garcia and Mslanka want to get paid? And the TWU has gotten their members a few raises this year. Now let's add in the big percentage we finally expect to come our way. I'm thinking for Fleet it might be around 28%? And now go look at the LM2's for last year for what Harry made and do the math. 

And one more time back to seniority integration. There just are going to be nowhere near enough members that will be affected by it that it will matter in the vote. Take me for instance. I have the same Company and Occupational time in Fleet and am not a CC. IN that role nothing pretty much will change for me. And even in your group not everyone wants to be a CC. Plus you're going to have guys who can't stand the changes and the one's who benefit from it are going to be over the moon.

The IAMPF. You're not going to be "forced" into it and I'm going to give you a very common sense reason why. The UAL vote for Mechanics. "Team care and the VEBA" 95% voted no by overwhelming mandate. You don't think the IAM looked at that and didn't say "Whoh, Holy Chit" ? I know you hate the IAM too but they're not that stupid. And let's not forget Peterson is in there and he doesn't really play too well with others. 

Will they still maybe (if the company agrees) offer it to you as a choice? Sure, why not, why shouldn't they. That "choice" will be yours to make. And you've already made that choice very clear. I'm still on the "fence" and will make MY decision when I read the offer and have a few more questions answered later.

And I'm not exactly an Association cheerleader like your guys over there think. Just know how to adapt to what's in front of me and I made a comment a few hours ago that states my opinion whether or not I'll call the Association a success or failure. But for you that UAL vote and lot's of other Political happenings these days should tell the Leaders out there one thing.

Don't F with us anymore.  

 

[Worldport]

Again I'm not going to speculate how we're going to do it here because the back and forth will absolutely grow quickly out of control with extreme emotions. Since TWA I'm just very tired of the unfortunate bickering. Whatever process is ultimately decided on will not make everyone happy. There's no way to do that, so.

 Currently  at LUS if you want the tower you put in your in station bid if you are senior and there is an opening you get the job and get sent to training if you pass you are in.  That sounds fair to me, who knows the AA way of thinking. They are all full time positions at least here at LGA

 

[WeAAsles]

Currently  at LUS if you want the tower you put in your in station bid if you are senior and there is an opening you get the job and get sent to training if you pass you are in.  That sounds fair to me, who knows the AA way of thinking. They are all full time positions at least here at LGA

There is no AA/TWU way of thinking on it since they were non Union before the NMB melded them in. Now if you mean management since it's the same management that you're used to I have to assume they don't want anything really to change?

 

[Tim Nelson]

The IBT was ONLY at four stations, BOS, BUF, PHL and PIT and they made less money than the rest iof the US system Tim and his half truths again.

And the company doesn't need the union's acceptance of PS. As long as it's applied to every ramper and mechanic th same way they can pay it out to you.

Prime example did the union sign off on the triple play money?

Nope they didn't and they still paid it to you and the union said or did nothing about it.

The IBT had the certification over the entire US AIRWAYS system. You are incorrect. Trust me, you don't know what you are talking about. And you are wrong again, Parker does need the unions signature. I guess you know more than Parker because he himself wants the signatures and it has nothing to do with my opinion. Sorry.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Question:

If you had actually worked for that airline and knew that TA1 was going to keep your city open and had a whiff that a turn down would have brought a second TA putting your city on the chopping block, would you "maybe perhaps" taken just a "slightly" different route? 

It's very easy to get involved in OTHER people's business when it's not going to affect you Tim.

Good job. Be proud of yourself.

EDIT:

Forgot to add. Thank you for the quarters Tim but that doesn't really impress me if you haven't figured it out by now. I don't sit at my desk counting my shekels with my greedy little sweaty hands. Not my main motivator.

anti unionist as yourself only think about yourself and sit on your arse with a keyboard in hand. The United peeps are my brothers and sisters AND it also affected me and all of us. It's all of our business, unfortunately, management has uneducated peeps as yourself who can't comprehend that what affects United will affect us.

TA2, while still sucked, enhanced scope. So not sure what you are referring to about small stations. 12 stations are open today because TA1 failed. Never mind the additional $2.75 they received in the base wage that benefitted all of us. All while you and 700 were yawning attempting to poke at me. Anti-worker peeps as yourself couldn't carry NYer's jockstrap. And that's why you could never win a Local election ever. When people who know you best stay away from you, like the plague,then something is wrong. BTW, a lot of peeps in MIA have notified me that you are never at your gate and are lazy and that is the main reason they want nothing to do with you. Just saying.

 

[WeAAsles]

The IBT had the certification over the entire US AIRWAYS system. You are incorrect. Trust me, you don't know what you are talking about. And you are wrong again, Parker does need the unions signature. I guess you know more than Parker because he himself wants the signatures and it has nothing to do with my opinion. Sorry.

Wow I thought I knew people in high places. When I asked for Parkers phone number (MIA Roadshow 2) he didn't give it to me. But you actually talk to him.

Who's cooler than you?

 

[700UW]

The IBT had the certification over the entire US AIRWAYS system. You are incorrect. Trust me, you don't know what you are talking about. And you are wrong again, Parker does need the unions signature. I guess you know more than Parker because he himself wants the signatures and it has nothing to do with my opinion. Sorry.

Liar, they were only IBT at BOS, BUF, PIT and PHL.

Funny I worked in Tampa for Piedmont and US had their own staff and they were non-union.

Stop with the bogus information.

And Parker doesn't need Association approval to pay out PS as long as it's the same for all Association represented employees.

Just like the triple pay, the union didn't sign off on it nor is it contractual, yet he paid you.

Just like he gave the APFA two raised above and beyond the CBA.

 

[WeAAsles]

anti unionist as yourself only think about yourself and sit on your arse with a keyboard in hand. The United peeps are my brothers and sisters AND it also affected me and all of us. It's all of our business, unfortunately, management has uneducated peeps as yourself who can't comprehend that what affects United will affect us.TA2, while still sucked, enhanced scope. So not sure what you are referring to about small stations. 12 stations are open today because TA1 failed. Never mind the additional $2.75 they received in the base wage that benefitted all of us. All while you and 700 were yawning attempting to poke at me. Anti-worker peeps as yourself couldn't carry NYer's jockstrap. And that's why you could never win a Local election ever. When people who know you best stay away from you, like the plague,then something is wrong. BTW, a lot of peeps in MIA have notified me that you are never at your gate and are lazy and that is the main reason they want nothing to do with you. Just saying.

I thought TA 2 was the one that granted UAL the ability to eventually go down to only 7 staffed Stations. I mean aren't YOU the one that told me that? There's no way if that were true that you would be stoooopid enough to advocate and push for that travesty would you?

I mean that would be something only a cancerous pustual would do at least IMO. And you certainly are no cancerous pustual.

Otherwise you seem rather angered as of late? Something bothering you?

 

[Worldport]

The IBT had the certification over the entire US AIRWAYS system. You are incorrect. Trust me, you don't know what you are talking about. And you are wrong again, Parker does need the unions signature. I guess you know more than Parker because he himself wants the signatures and it has nothing to do with my opinion. Sorry.

IBT over entire US system ? Where are you getting that?. Anyway I was on vacation last week and wanted absolutely nothing to do with this B/S. I ran into my neighbor who is an AMT at JFK while i'll take out the wild rumors and emotion he was basically saying the company wants Maintenance to go the US way, of course this is not being well received. These negotiations may take a lot longer than anyone thinks. This whole association thing may turn out to be a cluster----

 

[Tim Nelson]

Liar, they were only IBT at BOS, BUF, PIT and PHL.

Funny I worked in Tampa for Piedmont and US had their own staff and they were non-union.

Stop with the bogus information.

And Parker doesn't need Association approval to pay out PS as long as it's the same for all Association represented employees.

Just like the triple pay, the union didn't sign off on it nor is it contractual, yet he paid you.

Just like he gave the APFA two raised above and beyond the CBA.

Parker wants union approval. What can't you understand about that? And I guess you just refuse to believe the truth that the IBT had the full system of US AIRWAYS and won a vote prior to the Piedmont merger. Why do you keep budding in these conversations where I am supplying objective truthful and information that is also public knowledge?

No, it's not just like triple play. Yes, the union does have to sign it. Or to put another way, are you saying that we already have PS and that the union doesn't have to sign it? Yes or no?

 

[Worldport]

Parker wants union approval. What can't you understand about that? And I guess you just refuse to believe the truth that the IBT had the full system of US AIRWAYS and won a vote prior to the Piedmont merger. Why do you keep budding in these conversations where I am supplying objective truthful and information that is also public knowledge?

No, it's not just like triple play. Yes, the union does have to sign it. Or to put another way, are you saying that we already have PS and that the union doesn't have to sign it? Yes or no?

I think they won my 4 votes and it was contested ( some women in PHX voted for herself) then the merger came about. Tim I never paid dues to the IBT

 

[700UW]

How dense are you?

US was not unionized system wide for fleet, only BOS, BUF, PHL and PIT.

And the union's don't have to sign off on profit sharing, as long as it's done equally to all under the CBA for fleet and maintenance.

How many NC's have you been on and how many CBAs have you negotiated and did you go through the Collective Bargaining class at the Harbor?

You are wrong once again.

So what happened this week to cause your epic meltdown?

 

[Tim Nelson]

IBT over entire US system ? Where are you getting that?. Anyway I was on vacation last week and wanted absolutely nothing to do with this B/S. I ran into my neighbor who is an AMT at JFK while i'll take out the wild rumors and emotion he was basically saying the company wants Maintenance to go the US way, of course this is not being well received. These negotiations may take a lot longer than anyone thinks. This whole association thing may turn out to be a cluster----

I was involved with the IBT case from the beginning. Only 2 of us former Piedmont peeps had the balls to step up, as we were non union. The IBT won a representational vote during the merger of PSA, and they represented all US AIRWAYS rampers at that time. Same thing if the IAM won Delta ramp campaign, it would represent everyone. Previously, the IBT only represented 4 stations. And ograc could verify that the IBT contract was the best in the industry, unlike how 700 suggest it wasn't.