JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

The Elephant in the room is Seniority.

I know WeAAsles won't like this but, from my perspective, since the IAM waived off the McCaskill Bond protections, I fully expect this Association to truly go by DOH. But it won't. All of us LUS employees will get hosed over due to the IAM insisting on previous seniority rules. The cold hard fact is that we need to go TRULY by DOH and the IAM and our negotiators need to fight for our DOH. This isn't a personal rant as it only affects me by about 6 months but many of us will forever be hosed on the seniority roster if the IAM waives off DOH and recognizes previous seniority rules. And that would be total Bull Sheeetttttttt. Remember, the MBA protected this and the IAM waived it off when it dived in with this Association. A case to watch is our Pilots case. As you know, in Arbitration, outcomes differ, so let no person tell you that you necessarily have to give up your true DOH.

 

[Worldport]

The Elephant in the room is Seniority.

I know WeAAsles won't like this but, from my perspective, since the IAM waived off the McCaskill Bond protections, I fully expect this Association to truly go by DOH. But it won't. All of us LUS employees will get hosed over due to the IAM insisting on previous seniority rules. The cold hard fact is that we need to go TRULY by DOH and the IAM and our negotiators need to fight for our DOH. This isn't a personal rant as it only affects me by about 6 months but many of us will forever be hosed on the seniority roster if the IAM waives off DOH and recognizes previous seniority rules. And that would be total Bull Sheeetttttttt. Remember, the MBA protected this and the IAM waived it off when it dived in with this Association. A case to watch is our Pilots case. As you know, in Arbitration, outcomes differ, so let no person tell you that you necessarily have to give up your true DOH.

I thought this was already decided. Boy this association is a piece of work

 

[WeAAsles]

The Elephant in the room is Seniority.I know WeAAsles won't like this but, from my perspective, since the IAM waived off the McCaskill Bond protections, I fully expect this Association to truly go by DOH. But it won't. All of us LUS employees will get hosed over due to the IAM insisting on previous seniority rules. The cold hard fact is that we need to go TRULY by DOH and the IAM and our negotiators need to fight for our DOH. This isn't a personal rant as it only affects me by about 6 months but many of us will forever be hosed on the seniority roster if the IAM waives off DOH and recognizes previous seniority rules. And that would be total Bull Sheeetttttttt. Remember, the MBA protected this and the IAM waived it off when it dived in with this Association. A case to watch is our Pilots case. As you know, in Arbitration, outcomes differ, so let no person tell you that you necessarily have to give up your true DOH.

I could care less if they go DOH or DOB personally. I've got plenty of both now.

 

[WeAAsles]

I thought this was already decided. Boy this association is a piece of work

Im pretty sure it was a long time ago as well. Timmys just stirring it up for kicks again while he does his laundry.

 

[Worldport]

Im pretty sure it was a long time ago as well. Timmys just stirring it up for kicks again while he does his laundry.

I don't know if you can waive McCaskill-Bond it's a law. It's like you waving the weed laws

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't know if you can waive McCaskill-Bond it's a law. It's like you waving the weed laws

That law was written "after" TWA. I know Tim is alluding to them gaining back their seniority but BZZZZZZ. Not happening. Didn't happen with the Pilots, Flight Attendants, Customer Service Agents or the Dispatchers.

So again we interject the ideology of using common sense into the moot conversation.

http://youtu.be/A1mqg4C0awA

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don't know if you can waive McCaskill-Bond it's a law. It's like you waving the weed laws

WeAAsles is incorrect by all accounts. Trust me, I know this law and had MBA attorneys kicked off cases at AirTran/Southwest over it.
Yes, it was waived. Period. And yes, it can be waived as there are waivers inside the law. When both groups are represented by the same union, it waives it. The problem is compounded insomuch that we didn't vote on this Intermediate Collective Bargaining Agent which has exclusive rights to our negotiations [see it's challenge with the NMB over Peterson's remarks]. While we don't have to vote on this new labor organization, by law, there are some things that this new labor organization is doing and has done that I believe can be challenged BIGTIME, like violating our seniority rights. Further, nobody has been damaged yet as the list have not been integrated and a committee hasn't even been set up. It's a legal challenge, even without lawsuits. Our pilots have a framework as well as the CWA but it's taken a long time, and I believe our Pilots integration is going to an arbitrator this month, but not sure.

Another thing about this asshat organization, that nobody voted on, is that the constitution is illegal. Any labor organization that has exclusive bargaining rights has to have officer elections, by members or delegates in intermediate unions, the Association violates this by all accounts if you read our constitution. Plus, it violates our own collective bargaining as our bylaws were violated over bargaining rights. Notice, our district bylaws have our district responsible for bargaining, but Sito effed it all up and didn't even know he violated out bylaws. Morons, I have to waste my time to crack the whip on these absolute morons all the time.

I reminded INTL president Martinez that the Associaiton failed to address officer elections in its constitution and that he just can't be a dumb ass and leave it up to a tag team between two INTL presidents. He never responded so I contacted the DOL which is now investigating. Do you know this sham outfit didn't even file a LM2? And the organization isn't currently in the DOL database?

 

[ograc]

Is someone feeding this to you or is this your personal take on things? Just because the company doesn't want to give us the Moon doesn't mean cost neutral in any way, shape or form.

Everyone who's gotten a deal in the last year or two in our industry has seen dramatic gains against any type of contractual exchanges. But I guess that fact is not to be for old sad sack us?

Improvements on at least 17 out of 20 Articles so far is all fluff I guess?

 
Yes. Until I see exactly what those improvements are and how much of a sacrifice it was for the company. No one is feeding me brother. Truly my take on things. Let's face it WeAAsles; the BIG $$$ Articles have not even been discussed yet. An aggressive schedule for negotiations indeed. However, if the company's intent was to quickly make labor peace by restoring and respecting past sacrifice, the posture of the company at the table and productivity of talks to this point, do not support this intent. In the meantime... we standby to standby. I know my perspective is somewhat tainted from past Section 6 contract negotiations and two bankruptcy rapes (LUS). Not expecting the moon. I do expect proposals that, reflect the profitable environment AA is in and respect the sacrifices made by both AA (TWU) and LUS (IAM) members, that helped put them in that position. Based on past experience; corporate greed will, unfortunately, dictate their agenda IMO. We shall see. What is certain is that soon their true intent will be brought to the light. I hope you can tell me I was wrong. 

 

[Worldport]

WeAAsles is incorrect by all accounts. Trust me, I know this law and had MBA attorneys kicked off cases at AirTran/Southwest over it.
Yes, it was waived. Period. And yes, it can be waived as there are waivers inside the law. When both groups are represented by the same union, it waives it. The problem is compounded insomuch that we didn't vote on this Intermediate Collective Bargaining Agent which has exclusive rights to our negotiations [see it's challenge with the NMB over Peterson's remarks]. While we don't have to vote on this new labor organization, by law, there are some things that this new labor organization is doing and has done that I believe can be challenged BIGTIME, like violating our seniority rights. Further, nobody has been damaged yet as the list have not been integrated and a committee hasn't even been set up. It's a legal challenge, even without lawsuits. Our pilots have a framework as well as the CWA but it's taken a long time, and I believe our Pilots integration is going to an arbitrator this month, but not sure.

Another thing about this asshat organization, that nobody voted on, is that the constitution is illegal. Any labor organization that has exclusive bargaining rights has to have officer elections, by members or delegates in intermediate unions, the Association violates this by all accounts if you read our constitution. Plus, it violates our own collective bargaining as our bylaws were violated over bargaining rights. Notice, our district bylaws have our district responsible for bargaining, but Sito effed it all up and didn't even know he violated out bylaws. Morons, I have to waste my time to crack the whip on these absolute morons all the time.

I reminded INTL president Martinez that the Associaiton failed to address officer elections in its constitution and that he just can't be a dumb ass and leave it up to a tag team between two INTL presidents. He never responded so I contacted the DOL which is now investigating. Do you know this sham outfit didn't even file a LM2? And the organization isn't currently in the DOL database?

Wow 

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles is incorrect by all accounts. Trust me, I know this law and had MBA attorneys kicked off cases at AirTran/Southwest over it.Yes, it was waived. Period. And yes, it can be waived as there are waivers inside the law. When both groups are represented by the same union, it waives it. The problem is compounded insomuch that we didn't vote on this Intermediate Collective Bargaining Agent which has exclusive rights to our negotiations [see it's challenge with the NMB over Peterson's remarks]. While we don't have to vote on this new labor organization, by law, there are some things that this new labor organization is doing and has done that I believe can be challenged BIGTIME, like violating our seniority rights. Further, nobody has been damaged yet as the list have not been integrated and a committee hasn't even been set up. It's a legal challenge, even without lawsuits. Our pilots have a framework as well as the CWA but it's taken a long time, and I believe our Pilots integration is going to an arbitrator this month, but not sure.Another thing about this asshat organization, that nobody voted on, is that the constitution is illegal. Any labor organization that has exclusive bargaining rights has to have officer elections, by members or delegates in intermediate unions, the Association violates this by all accounts if you read our constitution. Plus, it violates our own collective bargaining as our bylaws were violated over bargaining rights. Notice, our district bylaws have our district responsible for bargaining, but Sito effed it all up and didn't even know he violated out bylaws. Morons, I have to waste my time to crack the whip on these absolute morons all the time.I reminded INTL president Martinez that the Associaiton failed to address officer elections in its constitution and that he just can't be a dumb ass and leave it up to a tag team between two INTL presidents. He never responded so I contacted the DOL which is now investigating. Do you know this sham outfit didn't even file a LM2? And the organization isn't currently in the DOL database?

So how many cups of coffee did you say you drink in a day again?

 

[Worldport]

So how many cups of coffee did you say you drink in a day again?

He's a thorn in the associations side. They would be better of hiring him and giving him some high paying B/S job to keep him quiet. Weaasles I would get on his good side if I were you

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes. Until I see exactly what those improvements are and how much of a sacrifice it was for the company. No one is feeding me brother. Truly my take on things. Let's face it WeAAsles; the BIG $$$ Articles have not even been discussed yet. An aggressive schedule for negotiations indeed. However, if the company's intent was to quickly make labor peace by restoring and respecting past sacrifice, the posture of the company at the table and productivity of talks to this point, do not support this intent. In the meantime... we standby to standby. I know my perspective is somewhat tainted from past Section 6 contract negotiations and two bankruptcy rapes (LUS). Not expecting the moon. I do expect proposals that, reflect the profitable environment AA is in and respect the sacrifices made by both AA (TWU) and LUS (IAM) members, that helped put them in that position. Based on past experience; corporate greed will, unfortunately, dictate their agenda IMO. We shall see. What is certain is that soon their true intent will be brought to the light. I hope you can tell me I was wrong.

Their true intent is to not go above the amount they already know that they're willing to expend. It's really as simple as that. They have a max number in their minds and its up to our guys to try and get as close to it as possible. But they'll never know if they did or not because when it's over the company is not going to say "We would have went 20 Mil more"

So when it's done and we vote on it, if it passes we'll always be left wondering. "Was that the best we could have done?" But if we pass it, we live with it. And it absolutely is not going to be cost neutral.

And I do get the idea of once bitten, twice shy Cargo. But how far you want to go with that is up to you? (And no the new company has not lived up to my expectations yet)

 

[Tim Nelson]

Their true intent is to not go above the amount they already know that they're willing to expend. It's really as simple as that. They have a max number in their minds and its up to our guys to try and get as close to it as possible. But they'll never know if they did or not because when it's over the company is not going to say "We would have went 20 Mil more"

So when it's done and we vote on it, if it passes we'll always be left wondering. "Was that the best we could have done?" But if we pass it, we live with it. And it absolutely is not going to be cost neutral.

And I do get the idea of once bitten, twice shy Cargo. But how far you want to go with that is up to you? (And no the new company has not lived up to my expectations yet)

Why aren't you feeling the once bitten twice shy? You seem to be a shill for the IAM, not trying to bust you but you seem to be the guy reporting on here everything that is happening [according to you] in negotiaions and claiming that our contract is going to be "All Good". Therefore, I'm somewhat confused since you pounded your own TWU and your Gosh Awful contract that you currently work under, so shouldn't you be a bit reserved about these negotiations or was your rants just political against NYer? I mean, I agreed with you that your contract blows real bad and sets us behind the 8 ball, but what gives you all of this energy to take over for 700 as the newest Pollyanna for a negotiation team?

 

[WeAAsles]

Why aren't you feeling the once bitten twice shy? You seem to be a shill for the IAM, not trying to bust you but you seem to be the guy reporting on here everything that is happening [according to you] in negotiaions and claiming that our contract is going to be "All Good". Therefore, I'm somewhat confused since you pounded your own TWU and your Gosh Awful contract that you currently work under, so shouldn't you be a bit reserved about these negotiations or was your rants just political against NYer? I mean, I agreed with you that your contract blows real bad and sets us behind the 8 ball, but what gives you all of this energy to take over for 700 as the newest Pollyanna for a negotiation team?

Tim I made a big mistake a while back. I took to drinking Cafe Bustello as regular coffee because the brick was cheap and I liked the taste. I was then getting severe anxiety and agitation. My cousin was finally the one to tell me "David have you lost your mind? You can't drink Bustello like regular coffee"

Boy was she right and I felt like a nit twit.

I'm drinking Chock O Nuts now and boy do I feel peachy keen.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have no problem with what he did in Houston. I hope they don't throw away any more of my money in that futile attempt. Tim is thinking of the workers the IAM is thinking of their dues. Again Weez you better get on his good side I fear the next video.

Yes Tim is the reincarnation of William Wallace without the War paint. (Or the height)