JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Kev3188]

Any T/A that loses a single station, point, or job should be seen as concessionary and regarded as DOA. 
 
An injury to one is an injury to all. 
 
You guys remember that, right? 

 

[robbedagain]

agree and sure do Kev

 

[Tim Nelson]

Any T/A that loses a single station, point, or job should be seen as concessionary and regarded as DOA. 
 
An injury to one is an injury to all. 
 
You guys remember that, right?

Why would there have to be any concessions at all?
As far as giving up work, they gave work up in our last contract but grandfathered the workers (including me), and if they give up work in small stations then at least i would think they would grandfather the peeps like ograc.

 

[Kev3188]

Why would there have to be any concessions at all?

There doesn't; not in the current industry environment, anyway.

Just seems like people were trying to manage Orgac's expectations a little is all...

 

[Traymark]

There doesn't; not in the current industry environment, anyway.

Just seems like people were trying to manage Orgac's expectations a little is all...

 
 
 
Crazy town....
There will be concessions and weasels will be on here to rationalize them for your forum pleasure.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I wish that you would just come out with it already. You're concerned about your station surviving.
Why can't you just be honest and admit that? Better to admit it and we can talk about it instead of doing this dance.

he isnt doing any dancing. Like many, he remains unconvinced on matters and is prolly recognizing past iam and company negotiations as reason to be suspicious. Time will tell.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Crazy town....
There will be concessions and weasels will be on here to rationalize them for your forum pleasure.

Weasle picked up where 700 left off. 2 iam pollyannas who will rationalize whatever is signed for a dollar bill. Weasle rationalized the new spirit iam contract as well as united ta1 so you hit the nail on the head.
If he cared about his own peeps then he would volunteer in some capacity at his local but he remains bitterly scarred and has flipped to shilling for the iam.

 

[WeAAsles]

Crazy town....
There will be concessions and weasels will be on here to rationalize them for your forum pleasure.

I'm not going to rationalize anything. If there are concessions (modifications) in putting together our two contracts, that's up to each individual what value they're going to place on that and whether they want to give it an up or down vote.

Take for instance if it was a Station closure. Who the Hell am I to tell anyone in that Station that they should vote yes for me or the majority of us and swallow it. Of course not, ridiculous.

 

[WeAAsles]

he isnt doing any dancing. Like many, he remains unconvinced on matters and is prolly recognizing past iam and company negotiations as reason to be suspicious. Time will tell.

Past negotiations were all done under financially distressed circumstances and were concessionary. I'm not making any look back because we're not under or in that type of situation today. And neither should he.

Period.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weasle picked up where 700 left off. 2 iam pollyannas who will rationalize whatever is signed for a dollar bill. Weasle rationalized the new spirit iam contract as well as united ta1 so you hit the nail on the head.
If he cared about his own peeps then he would volunteer in some capacity at his local but he remains bitterly scarred and has flipped to shilling for the iam.

I'm not interested in volunteering and I can absolutely assure you that if I tried (And I did) they would have no interest in using me. So at this moment it's just better probably to stay out of each other's way?

And if I was only interested in the dollar bill (Like yourself) I wouldn't have publicly stated an emphatic NO vote from me if they touched Freight. Or for that matter Cabin on your side unless they agreed to give you all Freight (And Mail) jobs in exchange.

 

[WeAAsles]

There doesn't; not in the current industry environment, anyway.
Just seems like people were trying to manage Orgac's expectations a little is all...

I just think some on this thread and many others I talk to on the field and on FB are looking at the picture with glasses that are a little too foggy?

The entire industry in regards to signed agreements has seen dramatic improvements over the past year. Yes there have been some damaging modifications as well but the entirety of the new signed CBA's have had far more value than the items exchanged. Case in point the standalone CBA for Fleet at US. That (interim) agreement leaped them up by over $4.00 per hour so far with no losses of any kind and not a hair on the head of any Station was touched.

Our negotiators have updated us that out of the 20 Articles they've TA'd there have been improvements on 17 against the 2 languages that we currently have, but that seems to be ignored here.

The meeting schedules have been intense. Multiple weeks in each month and starting Monday they go for another 4 straight weeks. If either side were really stonewalling the other they wouldn't be meeting as often as they have. Of course people would prefer they all ignore all items in their personal lives and go 24/7 but ok yea right. Not going to happen.

The company made 7.2 Billion in profits last year and 1.2 Billion in the first quarter of this year (The weakest quarter BTW) and those profits were on top of the agreements they signed with the Pilots and FA's last year that increased their overall Labor costs. So at least it seems to me that AA by far still has the financial ability to make improvements on the outstanding Fleet and Maintenance contracts still open.

So is it me that's not seeing the picture here clearly? Can I get a reasonable rebuttal based in reality as to why I might be wrong? What are other people maybe seeing that I'm missing?

 

[NYer]

WeAAsles is incorrect by all accounts. Trust me, I know this law and had MBA attorneys kicked off cases at AirTran/Southwest over it.
Yes, it was waived. Period. And yes, it can be waived as there are waivers inside the law. When both groups are represented by the same union, it waives it. The problem is compounded insomuch that we didn't vote on this Intermediate Collective Bargaining Agent which has exclusive rights to our negotiations [see it's challenge with the NMB over Peterson's remarks]. While we don't have to vote on this new labor organization, by law, there are some things that this new labor organization is doing and has done that I believe can be challenged BIGTIME, like violating our seniority rights. Further, nobody has been damaged yet as the list have not been integrated and a committee hasn't even been set up. It's a legal challenge, even without lawsuits. Our pilots have a framework as well as the CWA but it's taken a long time, and I believe our Pilots integration is going to an arbitrator this month, but not sure.

Another thing about this asshat organization, that nobody voted on, is that the constitution is illegal. Any labor organization that has exclusive bargaining rights has to have officer elections, by members or delegates in intermediate unions, the Association violates this by all accounts if you read our constitution. Plus, it violates our own collective bargaining as our bylaws were violated over bargaining rights. Notice, our district bylaws have our district responsible for bargaining, but Sito effed it all up and didn't even know he violated out bylaws. Morons, I have to waste my time to crack the whip on these absolute morons all the time.

I reminded INTL president Martinez that the Associaiton failed to address officer elections in its constitution and that he just can't be a dumb ass and leave it up to a tag team between two INTL presidents. He never responded so I contacted the DOL which is now investigating. Do you know this sham outfit didn't even file a LM2? And the organization isn't currently in the DOL database?

 
Neither does McCaskill-Bond nor Allegheny-Mohawk dictates the form in which seniority integration is supposed to look like, aside from saying it should be constructed in a "fair and equitable manner." If the unions comes to an agreement, then that is the preferred outcome under the law. In the event the unions can't come to an agreement or if there is only one surviving union, they would not be allowed to unilaterally dictate how the seniority integration would be. In the event of an impasse, those laws trigger the use of binding arbitration to reach and agreement.
 
In other words, the unions can't staple one group under the other as the APFA did with TWA, which prompted McCaskill-Bond to codify sections 3 & 13 of Allegheny-Mohawk in order to reach a seniority integration. However, the law worked as written during the integration between the TWU and IAM Members from the TWA merger as well as the America West and US Airways pilots. Mutual agreement or binding arbitration, that's what the law dictates.
 
There is no written guideline as to how the seniority integration should look like, whether it is by DOB, DOH or a lottery. It is either by mutual agreement or binding arbitration.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Neither does McCaskill-Bond nor Allegheny-Mohawk dictates the form in which seniority integration is supposed to look like, aside from saying it should be constructed in a "fair and equitable manner." If the unions comes to an agreement, then that is the preferred outcome under the law. In the event the unions can't come to an agreement or if there is only one surviving union, they would not be allowed to unilaterally dictate how the seniority integration would be. In the event of an impasse, those laws trigger the use of binding arbitration to reach and agreement.
 
In other words, the unions can't staple one group under the other as the APFA did with TWA, which prompted McCaskill-Bond to codify sections 3 & 13 of Allegheny-Mohawk in order to reach a seniority integration. However, the law worked as written during the integration between the TWU and IAM Members from the TWA merger as well as the America West and US Airways pilots. Mutual agreement or binding arbitration, that's what the law dictates.
 
There is no written guideline as to how the seniority integration should look like, whether it is by DOB, DOH or a lottery. It is either by mutual agreement or binding arbitration.

"Fair and equitable" is the guideline as you said. At AirTran/Southwest ramp, the IAM had AirTran, and the TWU had Southwest. I was initially privy to some of the early overtures by the TWU to the IAM regarding the integration of seniority and I can tell you that the TWU wanted 7 for 1. Obviously, that wasn't too fair but were certainly within the principles of the MBA. Of course, the MBA offers arbitration. I was no longer part or privy to the information so I'm not sure if it was an arbitrated settlement or an agreement without a 3rd party but the decision was that the TWU folks would have an imputed 2 years over the AirTran rampers, with the exception of ATL. If an AirTran ramper stayed in ATL, much like TWA in STL, he/she could keep full seniority.

At any rate, from my perspective, our seniority should go by DOH into the class, but the Association will integrate the seniority by making sure the TWA peeps [are there any left?] and LUS peeps do not get credit for past seniority decisions, none of which have been arbitrated and are not in stone.

 

[700UW]

AMFA represented mechanics at WN got a bump up in seniority and years added to them over the AirTran Mechanics who were IBT.
 
And this was done under McCaskill-Bond.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I still believe we will get a contract no later than September as they seemed to have progressed, but if either party starts stonewalling over petty things then it could risk everything as the metrics seem to be shifting in this industry. Again, if Parker wants to weaken scope or contract out more work then that's a deal breaker, but if there is fairness on the core things, then we ought to get a TA soon.

Just hate having to stand on Delta for my contract talks since Delta can wipe out workers and their pay at any time. And oil has climbed 90%, past $50, since our talks began. I know some union peeps were playing Mr broker and claiming that oil would remain below $50. Let's just focus on negotiations instead of playing games with oil and revenue. Supper is ready!
http://www.investors.com/news/american-airlines-sees-unit-revenue-drop-after-deltas-weak-outlook/?ven=YahooCP&ven=yahoo&src=AURLLED&yptr=yahoo