JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[psa8979]

Shades of Blue & Gray . Now there's a title for a book. AF Posters, Readers, and Trolls. Stand down and enjoy your Summer /2016. Be Safe and Work Smarter/ Not Harder !  DP/AAL will show the Association (TN your right again about the by-laws) their hand after DCA in Aug . Welcome ! TWU Brothers/Sisters to the IAMAW part of the Military Industrial Complex of America  and AAL. Real Change ! could  happen after Nov. for Airline Workers if POTUS forces Congress to amend  the RLA/NMB in 2017  allowing  US ! to STRIKE ! Vote Blue No Matter Who . Fish On !

 

[WeAAsles]

I still believe we will get a contract no later than September as they seemed to have progressed, but if either party starts stonewalling over petty things then it could risk everything as the metrics seem to be shifting in this industry. Again, if Parker wants to weaken scope or contract out more work then that's a deal breaker, but if there is fairness on the core things, then we ought to get a TA soon.Just hate having to stand on Delta for my contract talks since Delta can wipe out workers and their pay at any time. And oil has climbed 90%, past $50, since our talks began. I know some union peeps were playing Mr broker and claiming that oil would remain below $50. Let's just focus on negotiations instead of playing games with oil and revenue. Supper is ready!http://www.investors.com/news/american-airlines-sees-unit-revenue-drop-after-deltas-weak-outlook/?ven=YahooCP&ven=yahoo&src=AURLLED&yptr=yahoo

I'm sorry but maybe you missed this? We aren't going to be standing on the shoulders of non Union Delta ramp workers. UAL ramp workers got a contract recently that took them above Delta. That group is represented by the International Association of Machinists. It's an old Union that's been around for awhile. Have you ever heard of them?

Here's a link to that recent contract I'm talking about.

http://iam141.org/united/docs/040416IAM-UA%20Limited%20Issue%20TA%20Info%20Guide%20FSE.pdf

 

[AANOTOK]

And if I was only interested in the dollar bill (Like yourself) I wouldn't have publicly stated an emphatic NO vote from me if they touched Freight. Or for that matter Cabin on your side unless they agreed to give you all Freight (And Mail) jobs in exchange.

That's where you keep throwing me off W on your stance. First you say past negotiations were done under stress and that's not the case today, meaning NO concessions. Then you turn around and say the above. Giving up cabin IN EXCHANGE FOR is a CONCESSION. Why not if the tools and thought of giving Freight and Mail jobs back are even a possibility, can they not be given without GIVING something. Again, it was a CONCESSION when they took it under distress negotiations, no need to give a concession to get it back.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
Neither does McCaskill-Bond nor Allegheny-Mohawk dictates the form in which seniority integration is supposed to look like, aside from saying it should be constructed in a "fair and equitable manner." If the unions comes to an agreement, then that is the preferred outcome under the law. In the event the unions can't come to an agreement or if there is only one surviving union, they would not be allowed to unilaterally dictate how the seniority integration would be. In the event of an impasse, those laws trigger the use of binding arbitration to reach and agreement.
 
In other words, the unions can't staple one group under the other as the APFA did with TWA, which prompted McCaskill-Bond to codify sections 3 & 13 of Allegheny-Mohawk in order to reach a seniority integration. However, the law worked as written during the integration between the TWU and IAM Members from the TWA merger as well as the America West and US Airways pilots. Mutual agreement or binding arbitration, that's what the law dictates.
 
There is no written guideline as to how the seniority integration should look like, whether it is by DOB, DOH or a lottery. It is either by mutual agreement or binding arbitration.

Yep, another screwed up situation combining two unions and calling it the Association can present. Problems will always creep up with the Association, guaranteed!

 

[AANOTOK]

By the way, when I hired in with AA, they used DOH for Vacation, and Occupational for everything else. I still work for AA...just sayin!
As for DOB and/or Social Security branding...brother.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm sorry but maybe you missed this? We aren't going to be standing on the shoulders of non Union Delta ramp workers. UAL ramp workers got a contract recently that took them above Delta. That group is represented by the International Association of Machinists. It's an old Union that's been around for awhile. Have you ever heard of them?

Here's a link to that recent contract I'm talking about.

http://iam141.org/united/docs/040416IAM-UA%20Limited%20Issue%20TA%20Info%20Guide%20FSE.pdf

So you are ok with full time protections only applying to someone with 17+ years, and never mind any part time ratio cap, and a 35 flight bar. Cripes, right now we have more stations than United under scope, why would we want to go down to 28 stations as well? oops and never mind no cargo jobs nor any catering jobs, and supervisors being able to do some work, and rotating days off to abolish seniority even more. I imagine Parker would take that deal in an instant! You already said you would.

 

[WeAAsles]

So you are ok with full time protections only applying to someone with 17+ years, and never mind any part time ratio cap, and a 35 flight bar. Cripes, right now we have more stations than United under scope, why would we want to go down to 28 stations as well? oops and never mind no cargo jobs nor any catering jobs, and supervisors being able to do some work, and rotating days off to abolish seniority even more. I imagine Parker would take that deal in an instant! You already said you would.

I'm beginning to believe that you have a learning impediment?

I'm heading to work now but I'll come back to this and try again later.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm beginning to believe that you have a learning impediment?

I'm heading to work now but I'll come back to this and try again later.

Yes I do, I will never be able to learn how on earth you could take that dopey United deal, as you already said you would vote for it, when all you have to do is look at your own station, MIA, and try to figure out why you see workers from all other airlines, ramp and ticket counter, but don't see any United rampers or United ticket agents in such a large intl airport. That's the difference between me and you. You want the money and little else. You will rationalize any TA that comes down. Trust me, I know you. You already rationalized the dopey United deal and the goofy Spirit deal. I know you all too well.

 

[NYer]

"Fair and equitable" is the guideline as you said. At AirTran/Southwest ramp, the IAM had AirTran, and the TWU had Southwest. I was initially privy to some of the early overtures by the TWU to the IAM regarding the integration of seniority and I can tell you that the TWU wanted 7 for 1. Obviously, that wasn't too fair but were certainly within the principles of the MBA. Of course, the MBA offers arbitration. I was no longer part or privy to the information so I'm not sure if it was an arbitrated settlement or an agreement without a 3rd party but the decision was that the TWU folks would have an imputed 2 years over the AirTran rampers, with the exception of ATL. If an AirTran ramper stayed in ATL, much like TWA in STL, he/she could keep full seniority.

At any rate, from my perspective, our seniority should go by DOH into the class, but the Association will integrate the seniority by making sure the TWA peeps [are there any left?] and LUS peeps do not get credit for past seniority decisions, none of which have been arbitrated and are not in stone.

 
The TWA-TWU seniority is set in stone as it was an arbitrated decision.

 

[NYer]

Yep, another screwed up situation combining two unions and calling it the Association can present. Problems will always creep up with the Association, guaranteed!

 
The process is the same whether it was one union, two unions or the credit union.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm sorry but maybe you missed this? We aren't going to be standing on the shoulders of non Union Delta ramp workers. UAL ramp workers got a contract recently that took them above Delta. That group is represented by the International Association of Machinists. It's an old Union that's been around for awhile. Have you ever heard of them?

Here's a link to that recent contract I'm talking about.

http://iam141.org/united/docs/040416IAM-UA%20Limited%20Issue%20TA%20Info%20Guide%20FSE.pdf

Applying a lot of the language in the UAL CBA to yours would mean winding up with a concessionary contract.

 

[Kev3188]

 
The TWA-TWU seniority is set in stone as it was an arbitrated decision.

Just as an exercise, if it was decided to go with straight DOH, can Kasher be "reversed," would they stick with 4/1/01, or would there be some sort of carve out?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Just as an exercise, if it was decided to go with straight DOH, can Kasher be "reversed," would they stick with 4/1/01, or would there be some sort of carve out?

if it was arbitrated, as NYer informed us, then they won't be able to go back and rewrite the TWA seniority.

 

[Worldport]

Are you ever going to learn from the mistakes of the past?
 
Go ask UA Ramp what happened to them when they voted for the money.
 
Go ask US Ramp what happened to over 20 stations after the 2008 JCBA when they voted for the money.
 
Every single item in a CBA has a cost attached to it, I guess you dont remember 1992 when the company screwed you all.

I don't understand yours and Weaasles idea that it has to take a long time to get a good contract. I think the company was ready to go, the unions weren't. When the association finally got their sh!t together they did something to piss off the company and now we wait. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don't understand yours and Weaasles idea that it has to take a long time to get a good contract. I think the company was ready to go, the unions weren't. When the association finally got their sh!t together they did something to piss off the company and now we wait.

these 2 unions started nuking eachother and we wasted 8 months. It even got so bad that the I Am Management union lettered all of the TWU prez' asking them to join in on negotiation strategy. Of course, Klima's was a serious miscalculation just like his miscalculation at Delta when he blew the SLC assignment. Not surprisingly, like all dopes, he was snatched up by the INTL to lead the charge in all organizing. So far, he is O-fer.

Negotiations should have already concluded, but weasel may turn up right insomuch that, in a twisted way, it may prove to our benefit. Gotta reel in a fair TA first.