JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Kev3188]

You have to be kidding? Offline? You should get a restraining order.

Offline as in not on here.

I can assure you I'm 100% serious...

 

[Kev3188]

Compare NKs fares and revenue to AA, DL, and UA.
 
That is the story.

Compare the core work, and think big picture.

/That/ is the story...

 

[700UW]

So pay them the same and then the airline will file chapter 7 or 11.
 
$7.2 billion vs $315 million, those are facts.

 

[Kev3188]

It's the same work. We (as in labor) have allow ourselves to undercut each other. Repeatedly. For 30 years.

And then we wonder why capital continues to steamroll us...

 

[WeAAsles]

It's the same work. We (as in labor) have allow ourselves to undercut each other. Repeatedly. For 30 years.
And then we wonder why capital continues to steamroll us...

Alright then let's try this one on for size. Should a small town Hardware store pay the same as someone who works in a Home Depot in Long Island NY? Should an independent grocer pay the same as a Walmart that's directly across the street from him? Would he have the ability to pay better wages and remain in business? What does Walmart do if he goes out of business?

If every LCC went out of business because everyone in America demanded wages like we get would small communities continue to receive air service? Would people in those communities be able to afford to pay what the majors require to be able to turn a profit.

Aren't we already seeing what happens since most of us work in Hub cities and those Hubs have generated the growth of those cities? What happens to a community when it loses air service Kev?

 

[Kev3188]

The hub it feeds dies.

You are assuming that paying people reasonable wages is the death knell for businesses. You are also tacitly saying it's okay for a guy working a flight in,say, ICT to get 1/2 what you'll get to unload it on the other end...

 

[WeAAsles]

The hub it feeds dies.
You are assuming that paying people reasonable wages is the death knell for businesses. You are also tacitly saying it's okay for a guy working a flight in,say, ICT to get 1/2 what you'll get to unload it on the other end...

Yes I am saying that and not even being tacit about it. If the "community" that one side lives in doesn't generate the revenue that say NYC generates, then how can the guy in ICT expect or demand the type of wages you think they should? And at the same time a passenger in ICT will not make the same salary as his counterpart in NYC can command and needs just to live there, so what he can afford to pay for a seat is much more restricted.

Kev I find it incredibly hard to believe that you don't understand this because you're very smart.

Those second tier cities that I'm sure you hate exist because that's what the airline can afford to pay and still be able to generate a profit. Maybe it's the financial restrictions of the community that make that be or the competition is so intense that the airline has to offer lower fares to gain the business? Why do you think it's very difficult for OAL to offer service out of different airlines Hubs?

And if your airline can't afford to offer service to smaller cities then they don't pick up the few passengers that are flying on to other destinations. Basically if you make it financially impossible for an airline to offer service to these cities then eventually small town America dies and all you have left is service between Hubs or larger and larger eventual Mega Cities.

Raise or fight to get the wages in those small cities you cherish so much over what the market can sustain and you've just cut your own throat. YOU forced yourself to have to move cause your airline has now suspended service and pulled out.

 

[Kev3188]

I find it very hard to believe you're advocating for unequal pay for equal work...

 

[WeAAsles]

I find it very hard to believe you're advocating for unequal pay for equal work...

Oh baloney with this nonsense. Where do you live? MSP? How cheap is it where you live? I can't believe how GREEDY you are that you think you should earn the same pay as a guy in NYC or Los Angeles.

Yes you are simply greedy and really are only thinking about YOURSELF.

I make 50k living in MIA and my counterpart in JFK should be making 77k to have the same standard of living as me. Unlike you I have no problem saying or admitting that my Brothers in NY are underpaid compared to me.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-cities-that-have-lost-the-most-flights-1437585049

Maybe a guy who lives in Bangladesh should also earn $30 American Dollars an hour?

Equal pay for equal work should be an International initiative.

 

[WeAAsles]

I find it very hard to believe you're advocating for unequal pay for equal work...

I'm also wondering if you even understand what the equal pay for equal work National initiative actually means?

I think you need to start doing a little more research into it.

 

[Racer X]

Yes and why I mentioned that. Wondering if the company (I'm sure they will) will try to negotiate that out of the contract? Will they also want the ability to allow PT to sign up for OT? Or for transfers to be taken from PT to FT in station before allowing a more senior guy to come in from somewhere else? Will the company want to end the OT bypass and have members come in and make up that bypass?

These are items that are out there in other industry contracts and you better believe that the company is well aware of them.Some 

LUS agreement has ot for PT and the ot bypass that you speak of . So that leads back to the discussion of what is actually a concession.       LUS pt could claim a concession if they dont get ot as currently done BUT,  in the same debate; the LAA ft can claim a concession if it goes the other way             

 

[Kev3188]

Oh baloney with this nonsense. Where do you live? MSP? How cheap is it where you live? I can't believe how GREEDY you are that you think you should earn the same pay as a guy in NYC or Los Angeles.

Yes you are simply greedy and really are only thinking about YOURSELF.

I make 50k living in MIA and my counterpart in JFK should be making 77k to have the same standard of living as me. Unlike you I have no problem saying or admitting that my Brothers in NY are underpaid compared to me.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-cities-that-have-lost-the-most-flights-1437585049

Maybe a guy who lives in Bangladesh should also earn $30 American Dollars an hour?

You are conflating GEO pay overrides with base rates.

Equal pay for equal work should be an International initiative.

I agree.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are conflating GEO pay overrides with base rates.I agree.

Wrong about the GEO pay. You're just deflecting the conversation. Attaching GEO pay makes it unfair again under your assessment. Under your metric there already is equal pay then, it's called the minimum wage law.

A house in DFW cost $100,000
A house in Brooklyn cost $600,000

Which clerk in which area is going to be able to buy a house and which one isn't?

 

[WeAAsles]

LUS agreement has ot for PT and the ot bypass that you speak of . So that leads back to the discussion of what is actually a concession.       LUS pt could claim a concession if they dont get ot as currently done BUT,  in the same debate; the LAA ft can claim a concession if it goes the other way

Exactly. Thank you. You get it.

 

[AANOTOK]

Exactly. Thank you. You get it.

Let's cut the crap W.
 
A concession in the big picture.
Outsourcing ANY work we currently have.
Taking away ANY sick days (hrs) we currently have.
Taking away ANY holidays we currently have.
Cutting our hourly rate we are currently paid.
Allowing unlimited PT would be a concession.
Cutting our Vacation down would be a concession.
 
And I know I'm missing a few, but you get the idea W so stop trying to make it fit your argument
so you can claim you're right (as usual).
 
We all know there will be some adjust that need to be made on both sides when combining
the two contracts. And yes, some may not be happy that LUS contract verbiage was used instead
of LAA, or vice versa.
 
You know damn well W, the bottom line is a concession is giving something back to the company
that you currently have, not combining contracts and saying, I'M GETTING SCREWED!