Pimps they arw who would sell their grandmothers if they thought it might put a jet on their property. Scabs, pigs, call it what you like, they are leading the industry in contractual demolition. Don''t like the message? I''d caution you from shooting the messanger.
Jets for Jobs??
- Thread starter smfav8r
- Start date
D3o2r8kdrvr,
No, you are the one shooting the messenger, so to speak. You can have all the ALPA groups huddle together all you want to set pilot rates, and it will not matter. The free market customers will only pay what they will pay. You cannot set the market rate for fares, and you cannot be paid whatever you feel you are worth without regard to a company P & L. Only a financially strong company guarantees job security, unions only go as far to harm that same job security. The two are mutually exclusive. If you had all the ALPA groups at mainline, W/O carriers, and affiliate carriers band together, and in effect raise costs, passengers would flock to DL Connection, AA Eagle, CoEx, and the LCCs, and US would be history permanently.
No, you are the one shooting the messenger, so to speak. You can have all the ALPA groups huddle together all you want to set pilot rates, and it will not matter. The free market customers will only pay what they will pay. You cannot set the market rate for fares, and you cannot be paid whatever you feel you are worth without regard to a company P & L. Only a financially strong company guarantees job security, unions only go as far to harm that same job security. The two are mutually exclusive. If you had all the ALPA groups at mainline, W/O carriers, and affiliate carriers band together, and in effect raise costs, passengers would flock to DL Connection, AA Eagle, CoEx, and the LCCs, and US would be history permanently.
The point is that they are running around in our color scheme raping our pay rates. Its pathetic that the mainline pilot group would even allow an outfit like MESA to have keys to our front door. They are irresponsible operators who have done permanent damage to our payscales.
Mmmmmmm, I remember that once upon a time WO pilots asked for flow through senority, similar to Continental. The mainline MEC, shot it down, then pressed for flow down through J4J and got it. Think pilots that have worked hard at flying regionals for many years deserve that? When some of them started to fly pax old Allegheny did not have any jets. Union brothers? Right. The majority of Airways flights are short hauls, t-props and RJs, so who is USAirways? Methinks all of us that are part of the group. The MGT loves to keep the entities bickering.
When you kneel you know what you can kiss
Man Retread, you have class! It''s a shame you''re out in the street. I''m sure you''re a GREAT rep of UA, huh?
Man Retread, you have class! It''s a shame you''re out in the street. I''m sure you''re a GREAT rep of UA, huh?
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On 4/10/2003 6:06:45 PM D3o2r8kdrvr wrote:
The point is that they are running around in our color scheme raping our pay rates. Its pathetic that the mainline pilot group would even allow an outfit like MESA to have keys to our front door. They are irresponsible operators who have done permanent damage to our payscales.
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On 4/10/2003 6:06:45 PM D3o2r8kdrvr wrote:
The point is that they are running around in our color scheme raping our pay rates. Its pathetic that the mainline pilot group would even allow an outfit like MESA to have keys to our front door. They are irresponsible operators who have done permanent damage to our payscales.
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Just what do you mean by "irresponsible operators"? What exactly are you implying? Think before you answer.
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On 4/10/2003 2:40:07 PM retread wrote:
When you kneel you know what you can kiss. The WO were offered the J4J program remember! However, the greed got the best of you because you wanted our RJS without our pilots. You could of had half of them. We had a scope that protected us from this crap.
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Once again you show your complete ingorance of any facts concerning J4J's.
All 3 WO's ratified and agreed to J4J's long ago. PDT agreed to J4J's about last July or Aug, before Airways went into bankruptcy. There was no greed as you contend, we ratifed what Mainline ALPA/U management demanded.
You say "we could have had half of them", half of them what?
Do you see any jets at the WO? NO, Any orders or even talk of getting any in the future? No... And if we do get all these great jets that are supposedly going to save USAir, we get the privelege of having 50% of our pilots end up on the street. So there is lots of pain and "unfairness" to go around and that is the aviation industry since deregulation.
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retread,On 4/10/2003 2:40:07 PM retread wrote:
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On 4/10/2003 9:08:35 AM DHC8Driver wrote:
retread wrote:
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On 4/10/2003 9:08:35 AM DHC8Driver wrote:
retread wrote:
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When you kneel you know what you can kiss. The WO were offered the J4J program remember! However, the greed got the best of you because you wanted our RJS without our pilots. You could of had half of them. We had a scope that protected us from this crap.
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Once again you show your complete ingorance of any facts concerning J4J's.
All 3 WO's ratified and agreed to J4J's long ago. PDT agreed to J4J's about last July or Aug, before Airways went into bankruptcy. There was no greed as you contend, we ratifed what Mainline ALPA/U management demanded.
You say "we could have had half of them", half of them what?
Do you see any jets at the WO? NO, Any orders or even talk of getting any in the future? No... And if we do get all these great jets that are supposedly going to save USAir, we get the privelege of having 50% of our pilots end up on the street. So there is lots of pain and "unfairness" to go around and that is the aviation industry since deregulation.
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Wrong,at first you guys refused any part of J4J . You thought you should get them all. It wasnt until Dave said the heck with you and started working a deal with the Subs. Why dont you get your facts right before you spew.Why are you guys so mad at the Subs? Is it because they are getting the jets and some of your routes? Kind of like what the WO and Subs have been doing to ML for years. Why dont you ask Dave why the WO are not flying jets. Like I said the RJS (Replacement Jets) should be flown by the pilots who paid for them. Spin it any way you like, you want to fly our jets. A legal way to scab.----------------
Your lost. I lose I.Q. points just reading your garbage. Of course we refused J4J, no one in their right mind would ever accept it. Unfortunately the PSA MEC is just as clueless and weak as you and accepted it on our behalf "without" membership ratification. Before you start telling others to get the facts straight, you might want to try taking your own advice because all contract carriers turned it down the first time around.
We were trying to get our MEC to not accept J4J because you have absolutly no right to fly anything for US Airways Express just like you would'nt let us come to Mainline unrestricted, let alone come here and be a Capt. out of seniority. That just takes pure balls. You had the opportunity when a flowthrough was written up, but you turned it down. We should not have to pay for your "lack of vision".(get to know that term)
U was living in the dark ages compared to other airlines with substantial RJ feed. Those RJ's belong at the Express levels to feed Mainline, if Mainline would ever pull its head out of its arse and use a 73 like its supposed to. Not flying PIT to CRW all day long, but I'm sure you were OK with that, huh? Your original fight should have been for better Mgt. Not people that run from competion, someone who eats it up. I agree with the one person in another post that said all flying should be done by one company and one list, but once again the term "lack of vision" comes to mind.
The WO's took nothing from mainline. We did not underbid you in anyway. If we did I'm sure I would be flying a nice shiny Airbus for regional pay. So since I'm not, I can't imagine how you think the WO's (who's promary purpose is to FEED mainline) took anything from you. If there's any taking going on, its from outside the Group because your MEC is more than happy to show support for those on the outside of the Group. And lets not leave Mgt. out of this who to this day is more than happy not to grow the company, but to try and shrink itself into making money. Which we still haven't done yet.
So here we are the WO pilots trying to get the mainline to come together and realize that the US Airways Group is made up of many different airlines trying to do one thing. Keep it in the family. And then there are those like you with, whats the term?, LACK OF VISION.
Oh but wait, I'm sorry I'm starting to forget my place. I'm a scab to you, huh? Well I've got one that would fit you pretty good. Let's try scumbag. I mean who else would come up with an agreement that would purposely circumvent their own Group pilots CBA. A Scumbag who Lacks Vision, thats who.
In closing to all others, I'll gladly fly next to someone who comes to PSA through J4Js, but this deal could have and should have been done in a much different way with the end result being One company and One list. The coming years will not be happy ones.
- Thread Starter
- #38
Just for a laugh....looking on some job boards and of course Comedy Air is hiring.....they are looking for "commuter pilots"....now are they regional pilots or commuter pilots???
Hmmmmm....Identity Crisis???? This one should stir the pot!!!
Hmmmmm....Identity Crisis???? This one should stir the pot!!!
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On 4/11/2003 12:23:02 AM BoredToDeath wrote:
retread,
Your lost. I lose I.Q. points just reading your garbage. Of course we refused J4J, no one in their right mind would ever accept it. Unfortunately the PSA MEC is just as clueless and weak as you and accepted it on our behalf "without" membership ratification. Before you start telling others to get the facts straight, you might want to try taking your own advice because all contract carriers turned it down the first time around.
We were trying to get our MEC to not accept J4J because you have absolutly no right to fly anything for US Airways Express just like you would'nt let us come to Mainline unrestricted, let alone come here and be a Capt. out of seniority. That just takes pure balls. You had the opportunity when a flowthrough was written up, but you turned it down. We should not have to pay for your "lack of vision".(get to know that term)
U was living in the dark ages compared to other airlines with substantial RJ feed. Those RJ's belong at the Express levels to feed Mainline, if Mainline would ever pull its head out of its arse and use a 73 like its supposed to. Not flying PIT to CRW all day long, but I'm sure you were OK with that, huh? Your original fight should have been for better Mgt. Not people that run from competion, someone who eats it up. I agree with the one person in another post that said all flying should be done by one company and one list, but once again the term "lack of vision" comes to mind.
The WO's took nothing from mainline. We did not underbid you in anyway. If we did I'm sure I would be flying a nice shiny Airbus for regional pay. So since I'm not, I can't imagine how you think the WO's (who's promary purpose is to FEED mainline) took anything from you. If there's any taking going on, its from outside the Group because your MEC is more than happy to show support for those on the outside of the Group. And lets not leave Mgt. out of this who to this day is more than happy not to grow the company, but to try and shrink itself into making money. Which we still haven't done yet.
So here we are the WO pilots trying to get the mainline to come together and realize that the US Airways Group is made up of many different airlines trying to do one thing. Keep it in the family. And then there are those like you with, whats the term?, LACK OF VISION.
Oh but wait, I'm sorry I'm starting to forget my place. I'm a scab to you, huh? Well I've got one that would fit you pretty good. Let's try scumbag. I mean who else would come up with an agreement that would purposely circumvent their own Group pilots CBA. A Scumbag who Lacks Vision, thats who.
In closing to all others, I'll gladly fly next to someone who comes to PSA through J4Js, but this deal could have and should have been done in a much different way with the end result being One company and One list. The coming years will not be happy ones.
----------------
That about sums it up as I understand it!
On 4/11/2003 12:23:02 AM BoredToDeath wrote:
retread,
Your lost. I lose I.Q. points just reading your garbage. Of course we refused J4J, no one in their right mind would ever accept it. Unfortunately the PSA MEC is just as clueless and weak as you and accepted it on our behalf "without" membership ratification. Before you start telling others to get the facts straight, you might want to try taking your own advice because all contract carriers turned it down the first time around.
We were trying to get our MEC to not accept J4J because you have absolutly no right to fly anything for US Airways Express just like you would'nt let us come to Mainline unrestricted, let alone come here and be a Capt. out of seniority. That just takes pure balls. You had the opportunity when a flowthrough was written up, but you turned it down. We should not have to pay for your "lack of vision".(get to know that term)
U was living in the dark ages compared to other airlines with substantial RJ feed. Those RJ's belong at the Express levels to feed Mainline, if Mainline would ever pull its head out of its arse and use a 73 like its supposed to. Not flying PIT to CRW all day long, but I'm sure you were OK with that, huh? Your original fight should have been for better Mgt. Not people that run from competion, someone who eats it up. I agree with the one person in another post that said all flying should be done by one company and one list, but once again the term "lack of vision" comes to mind.
The WO's took nothing from mainline. We did not underbid you in anyway. If we did I'm sure I would be flying a nice shiny Airbus for regional pay. So since I'm not, I can't imagine how you think the WO's (who's promary purpose is to FEED mainline) took anything from you. If there's any taking going on, its from outside the Group because your MEC is more than happy to show support for those on the outside of the Group. And lets not leave Mgt. out of this who to this day is more than happy not to grow the company, but to try and shrink itself into making money. Which we still haven't done yet.
So here we are the WO pilots trying to get the mainline to come together and realize that the US Airways Group is made up of many different airlines trying to do one thing. Keep it in the family. And then there are those like you with, whats the term?, LACK OF VISION.
Oh but wait, I'm sorry I'm starting to forget my place. I'm a scab to you, huh? Well I've got one that would fit you pretty good. Let's try scumbag. I mean who else would come up with an agreement that would purposely circumvent their own Group pilots CBA. A Scumbag who Lacks Vision, thats who.
In closing to all others, I'll gladly fly next to someone who comes to PSA through J4Js, but this deal could have and should have been done in a much different way with the end result being One company and One list. The coming years will not be happy ones.
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On 4/12/2003 7:05:39 AM WOpropTrash wrote:
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Our jets our pilots. I will not lose much sleep worrying about what you think. In fact I wonder how much longer the WO will be around with the Mesas of the world out there. Good luck. You do need to understand what the scope clause was all about. For the record, I did and do believe there should of been a flow through. I quit.On 4/12/2003 7:05:39 AM WOpropTrash wrote:
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On 4/11/2003 12:23:02 AM BoredToDeath wrote:
retread,
Your lost. I lose I.Q. points just reading your garbage. Of course we refused J4J, no one in their right mind would ever accept it. Unfortunately the PSA MEC is just as clueless and weak as you and accepted it on our behalf "without" membership ratification. Before you start telling others to get the facts straight, you might want to try taking your own advice because all contract carriers turned it down the first time around.
We were trying to get our MEC to not accept J4J because you have absolutly no right to fly anything for US Airways Express just like you would''nt let us come to Mainline unrestricted, let alone come here and be a Capt. out of seniority. That just takes pure balls. You had the opportunity when a flowthrough was written up, but you turned it down. We should not have to pay for your "lack of vision".(get to know that term)
U was living in the dark ages compared to other airlines with substantial RJ feed. Those RJ''s belong at the Express levels to feed Mainline, if Mainline would ever pull its head out of its arse and use a 73 like its supposed to. Not flying PIT to CRW all day long, but I''m sure you were OK with that, huh? Your original fight should have been for better Mgt. Not people that run from competion, someone who eats it up. I agree with the one person in another post that said all flying should be done by one company and one list, but once again the term "lack of vision" comes to mind.
The WO''s took nothing from mainline. We did not underbid you in anyway. If we did I''m sure I would be flying a nice shiny Airbus for regional pay. So since I''m not, I can''t imagine how you think the WO''s (who''s promary purpose is to FEED mainline) took anything from you. If there''s any taking going on, its from outside the Group because your MEC is more than happy to show support for those on the outside of the Group. And lets not leave Mgt. out of this who to this day is more than happy not to grow the company, but to try and shrink itself into making money. Which we still haven''t done yet.
So here we are the WO pilots trying to get the mainline to come together and realize that the US Airways Group is made up of many different airlines trying to do one thing. Keep it in the family. And then there are those like you with, whats the term?, LACK OF VISION.
Oh but wait, I''m sorry I''m starting to forget my place. I''m a scab to you, huh? Well I''ve got one that would fit you pretty good. Let''s try scumbag. I mean who else would come up with an agreement that would purposely circumvent their own Group pilots CBA. A Scumbag who Lacks Vision, thats who.
In closing to all others, I''ll gladly fly next to someone who comes to PSA through J4Js, but this deal could have and should have been done in a much different way with the end result being One company and One list. The coming years will not be happy ones.
----------------
That about sums it up as I understand it! On 4/11/2003 12:23:02 AM BoredToDeath wrote:
retread,
Your lost. I lose I.Q. points just reading your garbage. Of course we refused J4J, no one in their right mind would ever accept it. Unfortunately the PSA MEC is just as clueless and weak as you and accepted it on our behalf "without" membership ratification. Before you start telling others to get the facts straight, you might want to try taking your own advice because all contract carriers turned it down the first time around.
We were trying to get our MEC to not accept J4J because you have absolutly no right to fly anything for US Airways Express just like you would''nt let us come to Mainline unrestricted, let alone come here and be a Capt. out of seniority. That just takes pure balls. You had the opportunity when a flowthrough was written up, but you turned it down. We should not have to pay for your "lack of vision".(get to know that term)
U was living in the dark ages compared to other airlines with substantial RJ feed. Those RJ''s belong at the Express levels to feed Mainline, if Mainline would ever pull its head out of its arse and use a 73 like its supposed to. Not flying PIT to CRW all day long, but I''m sure you were OK with that, huh? Your original fight should have been for better Mgt. Not people that run from competion, someone who eats it up. I agree with the one person in another post that said all flying should be done by one company and one list, but once again the term "lack of vision" comes to mind.
The WO''s took nothing from mainline. We did not underbid you in anyway. If we did I''m sure I would be flying a nice shiny Airbus for regional pay. So since I''m not, I can''t imagine how you think the WO''s (who''s promary purpose is to FEED mainline) took anything from you. If there''s any taking going on, its from outside the Group because your MEC is more than happy to show support for those on the outside of the Group. And lets not leave Mgt. out of this who to this day is more than happy not to grow the company, but to try and shrink itself into making money. Which we still haven''t done yet.
So here we are the WO pilots trying to get the mainline to come together and realize that the US Airways Group is made up of many different airlines trying to do one thing. Keep it in the family. And then there are those like you with, whats the term?, LACK OF VISION.
Oh but wait, I''m sorry I''m starting to forget my place. I''m a scab to you, huh? Well I''ve got one that would fit you pretty good. Let''s try scumbag. I mean who else would come up with an agreement that would purposely circumvent their own Group pilots CBA. A Scumbag who Lacks Vision, thats who.
In closing to all others, I''ll gladly fly next to someone who comes to PSA through J4Js, but this deal could have and should have been done in a much different way with the end result being One company and One list. The coming years will not be happy ones.
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On 4/10/2003 8:27:44 PM LukeSkywalker wrote:
When you kneel you know what you can kiss
Man Retread, you have class! It''s a shame you''re out in the street. I''m sure you''re a GREAT rep of UA, huh?
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Sorry, I am still employed at ML. I am not in (on) the street. I do not work at UA, I work at U (USairways). Have you been in the business very long?On 4/10/2003 8:27:44 PM LukeSkywalker wrote:
When you kneel you know what you can kiss
Man Retread, you have class! It''s a shame you''re out in the street. I''m sure you''re a GREAT rep of UA, huh?
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On 4/13/2003 3:06:31 PM retread wrote:
Our jets our pilots. I will not lose much sleep worrying about what you think. In fact I wonder how much longer the WO will be around with the Mesas of the world out there. Good luck. You do need to understand what the scope clause was all about. For the record, I did and do believe there should of been a flow through. I quit.
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Don''t worry. What goes around comes around. It appears that more mainline flying is going to the Mesas while the WO''s continue to fly most of their present routes. Maybe you should worry about whether you will be around. You are not exactly making a profit for the company. Those guys will fly your routes much cheaper! It also appears that Dave is going to put a few more of you guys on the street. I do believe the free ride is over! Santa has left the building! Good luck to you!On 4/13/2003 3:06:31 PM retread wrote:
Our jets our pilots. I will not lose much sleep worrying about what you think. In fact I wonder how much longer the WO will be around with the Mesas of the world out there. Good luck. You do need to understand what the scope clause was all about. For the record, I did and do believe there should of been a flow through. I quit.
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I understand very much about your scope clause. Your short-sighted position of "what''s in it for me" rather than realizing that with all the feeder traffic going to the RJ competition, the seats on you flights would not be filled, cannot be overlooked. But wait, who allowed the contract carriers? Just look at you now!
Nevermind, you must be right. I can see it now. It''s apparent that the WO''s are the problem. Yeah, that''s the ticket!
Well put. I can''t decide which is more painful; understanding RETREADS obtuse arguments, or reading his pathetic grammar. Really man, how did you get out of third grade?
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On 4/14/2003 9
57 AM airjackson wrote:
Well put. I can''t decide which is more painful; understanding RETREADS obtuse arguments, or reading his pathetic grammar. Really man, how did you get out of third grade?
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Actually, third grade was a breeze. Fourth grade was the tuff one. Obtuse is a matter of perspective. It is inscrutable why I waste my time on this board. "Really man," it is.On 4/14/2003 9
57 AM airjackson wrote:Well put. I can''t decide which is more painful; understanding RETREADS obtuse arguments, or reading his pathetic grammar. Really man, how did you get out of third grade?
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Todd B
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