July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Your "signature" is when you accepted ALPA as your bargaining agent.

By that absurd excuse for even any slight semblance of "logic"; then it is equally true that ANY action of USAPA has been/is blessed with your "signature", since, like it or not (which I certainly did NOT with alpa) you legally "accepted" USAPA as your bargaining agent...and with that all of it's CBL's, among which is DOH. Happy now? 😉 You logically can't have it both ways, although, with the complete lack of ANY actual logic dependably displayed whenever any of you feebly attempt to justify the west position...well... I'm sure you'll try to 😉

 

[EastUS1]

You are paraphrasing alright...Nicolau did not say U pilots had no career expectation...he said it was considerably less than the AWA pilots though.

So then: How well have all those glorious "expectations" actually been working out for you? Oh!..and did those "expectations" rationally include a posiible merger?...Much less two?...Spare us all any such utter nonsense. "Career expectations" are suitable only for imaginative young children....or fools who willfully choose to spend their entire, supposedly "adult" lives, seeking asylum in Fantasyland.

 

[EastUS1]

Ah yes. The East MO... always someone else to blame for your perceived misfortune. Always the victim. You guys certainly have that act down.

Some honest curiosity regarding a particular psychological pathology begs the question: Through what steps did you derive your above notions from: "Were the radical and incredibly flippant changes, (made clearly for the appeasement of UAL and perhaps others), to alpa's laughable excuse for a most mutable "merger policy".....?

 

[EastUS1]

"It was the first to get money in 2001."

First to pay it back...

Which doesn't at all change the fact they were first to come begging for a bailout.

 

[mrbreeze]

Here's the problem with what you're trying to say. The award used fundamentally the same methodology as the one before it and the two after it. The only insanity that exists here is in the minds of some East pilots.

Longevity is not seniority. I've used this example a dozen times to prove it. If you were the last pilot hired for 10 years are you anymore senior at year 10 than year 1? The answer is no, you're still the junior pilot after 10 years. You have no more seniority than you did at year 1.

If you want to fight the award, fine, but don't insult me or yourself by saying it's because of principle.

Four seniority arbitrations in a row proves that it's not.

Ok, trader,

First of all, of the 4 slotting arbitrations, so far only 2 have panned out and are on down the road with their careers....as I have pointed out before. On the other 2, the jury is still out. It's not the wave of the future as you would have us believe.

Second....call it seniority or longetivity, it doesn't matter. Your point is mute.

What is important is time spent on the job and time invested with the company. Not only is the experience levels different between a 10 yr pilot and a 1 yr pilot, but the time invested by the 10 yr pilot is more important....consider the time away from his family, how many hours he has flown for the company, his experience level, his retirement, his increase in wages, he is off probation and the horrid B scale, how many baseball games he has missed at home, etc.....WHAT HE HAS ALREADY INVESTED IN THIS CAREER, COMPARED TO THE 1 YR PILOT!!!

The whole argument here is time invested in the job....call it goat roping if you want. You can not expect a 10 yr pilot to say..."ok, I will forget what I have invested and let this guy with 1 yr of experience have a place in line ahead of me." The 1 yr guy has not paid the dues of the 10 yr guy....so, therefore, you have a fight on your hands from the start.

Ain't gonna happen!

breeze

 

[EastUS1]

You've got me confused with someone else - ...

An understandable error, since you've previously misrepresented yourself to indeed be "someone else", by way of your directly implying qualifications, accomplishments and experiences you never had.

 

[EastUS1]

The whole argument here is time invested in the job....call it goat roping if you want. You can not expect a 10 yr pilot to say..."ok, I will forget what I have invested and let this guy with 1 yr of experience have a place in line ahead of me." The 1 yr guy has not paid the dues of the 10 yr guy....so, therefore, you have a fight on your hands from the start.

Ain't gonna happen!

Aptly summed up sir. For any to pretend otherwise, or to even attempt justification for something that so egregiously flies in the face of all natural law and human nature it's self, merely by way of "But Dude!..St. Nic thinks it's way cool!", well...any expectation for ready acceptance of such insanity is purely absurd.

None can now know how all this will end...but...It certainly requires no great effort to see how and why it started.......

 

[EastCheats]

Well lets see if somebody contest the election and whether or not scabs Burke and Henriksson are seated prior to the resolution of the grievance in contrast to the way the first election was handled.

Count me out. This is democracy in action. The same kind of democracy found in the DPRK, the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea or the DDR German Democratic Republic.

It doesn't matter anyway because this organization will join the ranks of the DDR in the history books in the near future when APA becomes our bargaining agent.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

"It was the first to get money in 2001."



Which doesn't at all change the fact they were first to come begging for a bailout.

Didn't USAirways come begging for a bailout too?

America West paid it back, with interest and stayed alive...good for you it did, or your shabby airline would have never been rescued by AWA.

 

[EastUS1]

Didn't USAirways come begging for a bailout too?

Indeed so. Unlike yourself though, ever mindlessly thrashing pom poms around for AWA; I'm entirely unable to see that as being cause for applause, much less any swelling of, or thumping of chests 😉 I find it most amusing that even the simple observation that AWA was first in line for the government money effects you as it does 😉

 

[nic4us]

Ok, trader,

First of all, of the 4 slotting arbitrations, so far only 2 have panned out and are on down the road with their careers....as I have pointed out before. On the other 2, the jury is still out. It's not the wave of the future as you would have us believe.

Second....call it seniority or longetivity, it doesn't matter. Your point is mute.

What is important is time spent on the job and time invested with the company. Not only is the experience levels different between a 10 yr pilot and a 1 yr pilot, but the time invested by the 10 yr pilot is more important....consider the time away from his family, how many hours he has flown for the company, his experience level, his retirement, his increase in wages, he is off probation and the horrid B scale, how many baseball games he has missed at home, etc.....WHAT HE HAS ALREADY INVESTED IN THIS CAREER, COMPARED TO THE 1 YR PILOT!!!

The whole argument here is time invested in the job....call it goat roping if you want. You can not expect a 10 yr pilot to say..."ok, I will forget what I have invested and let this guy with 1 yr of experience have a place in line ahead of me." The 1 yr guy has not paid the dues of the 10 yr guy....so, therefore, you have a fight on your hands from the start.

Ain't gonna happen!

breeze

First of all....slotting by equipment and status is nothing new, and is not exclusive to the last 4 integrations. The method has been used in some form, far in excess of a straight DOH integration in all of aviation history.

Second, we all get the point of the 10 yr vs. 1 yr pilot. Under almost any other circumstance, the 10 yr pilot would have held more position and status, making the disparity far more marginal. That is a sign of just how deeply damaged the east's position had become.

Third, everybody expects the fight...and in this case everybody expected the fight to go all 15 rounds. But, the bell rang, the fight is over. All the east is doing is looking for the rematch, and the West is not getting back in the ring to take more low blows.

 

[CapnCockroach]

http://www.leveragedloan.com/american-airlines-us-airways-ceos-meet-to-discuss-merger/

"Speaking yesterday at a National Press Club luncheon in D.C., Parker reiterated his long-expressed desire to merge the two airlines. He was joined at the head table at the event by the leadership of AMR’s three unions: the Allied Pilots Association, the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, and the Transport Workers Union."

What??? No USAPPY at the breakfast table?

 

[nic4us]

By that absurd excuse for even any slight semblance of "logic"; then it is equally true that ANY action of USAPA has been/is blessed with your "signature", since, like it or not (which I certainly did NOT with alpa) you legally "accepted" USAPA as your bargaining agent...and with that all of it's CBL's, among which is DOH. Happy now? 😉 You logically can't have it both ways, although, with the complete lack of ANY actual logic dependably displayed whenever any of you feebly attempt to justify the west position...well... I'm sure you'll try to 😉

I know this was not in reply to me, but.....I never joined usapa....never accepted its C&BLs....never authorized it to speak for me in any way shape or form.

Further, and this is the kicker....usapa still owes me a DFR, and I have an arbitrated result with the other pilots usapa owes a DFR.

 

[EastUS1]

....and the West is not getting back in the ring to take more low blows.

Awww! What a woosie! Sigh!...This is no fun now...might as well break for breakfast 😉

 

[EastUS1]

http://www.leveraged...discuss-merger/

"Speaking yesterday at a National Press Club luncheon in D.C., Parker reiterated his long-expressed desire to merge the two airlines. He was joined at the head table at the event by the leadership of AMR’s three unions: the Allied Pilots Association, the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, and the Transport Workers Union."

What??? No USAPPY at the breakfast table?

NO, that would be NONE/Zip/ZERO employee groups from this side of the possible merger were there. If this is considered cause for much rejoicing in the west pilot ranks..well...one must sadly assume that the lingering effects of that massive sand storm include incredible decreases in the local population's IQ's....or at least among the pilots there. Being thrilled that all managment is clearly concerned with is making the AMR people happy is just plain, unbelievably stupid!