July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Here's the amended language that is a long way from being finalized:

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]"The USAPA Merger Committee shall comply with all provisions of the Constitution when combining seniority lists in any merger or fragmentation involving USAPA members. The Committee shall negotiate and or arbitrate for seniority integration in accordance with USAPA Merger Policy, [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]with particular emphasis on[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]maintaining uniform[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] principles of seniority based date of hire [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]and the perpetuation thereof[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)], with [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilots un-merged[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] career expectations. and [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]increase[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] the standard of living of all USAPA pilots."[/background]

Once again the east (with idiots like luv cheering them on) is painting their negotiators into a corner by giving them little wiggle room with which to work. Only this time, the east has little to no involvement in the outcome of this merger and will be told how SLI is going to happen.

I'm not at all worried about this "reaffirmation" as I think Hummel knows its pointless and serves merely to quiet down the idiots on the east by throwing them a meatless bone.

The safer bet is to go with what the APA put out and that was relative seniority.

does "un-merged career expectation" take into account the fact that the scabs stole jobs? I am guessing usapa does not see it that way, just as they did not see their career expectation absent the AWA buyout as bankrupt.

 

[luvthe9]

Pay attention to the MOU USAPA is going to put out. Embraer is currently negotiating with AMR about the return of ERJ regional jets from its American Eagle Airlines division. AMR has said it wants to relax its strict scope clause, which currently limits its feed to 50-seat jets, to 88-seat aircraft.
It looks as if Silva is targeting the North American market, with 2350 new jets. How does that compare to the entire R-J lift now being operated? The ONLY WAY that happens is if United, Delta, and American succeed in carving out the scope clauses in their contracts, which means that if you are flying what is considered “mainline” aircraft today, you will be likely furloughed out to fly in one of many outsourcing operations that will all bid against one another for work. http://www.operation...aration-of-war/​

 

[Move2CLT]

Just as these east guys have screwed themselves with LOA93, pension loss, our SLI, snapback loss, an injunction, and getting parked, I have NO doubt they will screw themselves in this next SLI.

Nothing but wet dreams for the easties.

 

[luvthe9]

DO NOT GIVE UP SCOPE!!!!!!!

 

[Pi brat]

The truth is not the currency of the realm here. Parker will tell you what he thinks will placate you and the media. USAPA will tell you what will shut up the yapping lapdogs in the Cleary Kennel. Few will just report the facts as they are known and let you make your own decision.

Someone once said, "Watch what they do, not what they say", but who it was, I can't quite remember. Maybe it was USAPA's last president who did irreparable damage both with what he said AND what he did.

Do you ever listen to yourself? If he just says thing to placate us why didn't he say " I doubt US would have liquidated, we just got a good deal"? Did he not care about placating F/O Whiny? How about he has no reason to lie about that? We both worked for also ran airlines.

 

[nic4us]

DO NOT GIVE UP SCOPE!!!!!!!

You really do crack me up!!!!!!

Here is what happens when a scab union grovels.

No respect, no position, no leverage, no scope.

Little reminder....Integrity Matters! uscaba has none.

 

[Metroyet]

Here's the amended language that is a long way from being finalized:

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]"The USAPA Merger Committee shall comply with all provisions of the Constitution when combining seniority lists in any merger or fragmentation involving USAPA members. The Committee shall negotiate and or arbitrate for seniority integration in accordance with USAPA Merger Policy, [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]with particular emphasis on[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]maintaining uniform[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] principles of seniority based date of hire [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]and the perpetuation thereof[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)], with [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilots un-merged[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] career expectations. and [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]increase[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] the standard of living of all USAPA pilots."[/background]

Once again the east (with idiots like luv cheering them on) is painting their negotiators into a corner by giving them little wiggle room with which to work. Only this time, the east has little to no involvement in the outcome of this merger and will be told how SLI is going to happen.

I'm not at all worried about this "reaffirmation" as I think Hummel knows its pointless and serves merely to quiet down the idiots on the east by throwing them a meatless bone.

The safer bet is to go with what the APA put out and that was relative seniority.

Here's the amended language that is a long way from being finalized:

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]"The USAPA Merger Committee shall comply with all provisions of the Constitution when combining seniority lists in any merger or fragmentation involving USAPA members. The Committee shall negotiate and or arbitrate for seniority integration in accordance with USAPA Merger Policy, [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]with particular emphasis on[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]maintaining uniform[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] principles of seniority based date of hire [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]and the perpetuation thereof[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)], with [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilots un-merged[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] career expectations. and [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]increase[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] the standard of living of all USAPA pilots."[/background]

Once again the east (with idiots like luv cheering them on) is painting their negotiators into a corner by giving them little wiggle room with which to work. Only this time, the east has little to no involvement in the outcome of this merger and will be told how SLI is going to happen.

I'm not at all worried about this "reaffirmation" as I think Hummel knows its pointless and serves merely to quiet down the idiots on the east by throwing them a meatless bone.

The safer bet is to go with what the APA put out and that was relative seniority.

What a waste of time. Day 1 they said it was going to McCaskill Bond route. If APA was dumb enough to agree with USTUPID's DOH scheme with "particular emphasis on screwing the West" language, AOL will sue Every concerned party by noon that day. Nevermind the implications of Silver's ruling....if it ever shows up. BTW, how will any arbitrator be able to arbitrate an integration as envisioned by McCaskill/Bond when there has been extensive ONGOING litigation in Federal court regarding half the list? Either this entire AA merger gets dragged out for several more years because of USTUPIDS refusal to Fairly Represent, or Parker finally fesses up to what he already knows and delivers the Nic award to APA the day after USTUPID gets thrown off the island and becomes a bad memory.

There's only one party here interested in delaying for several more years...They're the ones pouting in the corner being utterly ignored in all of this because that have managed to Fk up anything and everything theyve touched. To say USAPA has ZERO leverage is an understatement at best.

 

[nic4us]

Do you ever listen to yourself? If he just says thing to placate us why didn't he say " I doubt US would have liquidated, we just got a good deal"? Did he not care about placating F/O Whiny? How about he has no reason to lie about that? We both worked for also ran airlines.

I agree with you to a a certain extent.

When Parker or Kirby or Isom say something in a crewnews etc.... They are being genuine within the context of their fiduciary responsibility.

However, and for example, when Parker says the company has "accepted" the Nic, but feigns that the he does not know exactly what "accepted" means. Well, ya just have to call BS. On top of that, he wrote a letter accepting the Nic, that affirmed that the company could not use the Nic until a JCBA is reached. He downright dangled the bait in front of the east and you took it hook, line, and sinker.

Here is another one, Kirby straight up told you the LOA93 grievance had a 0% chance of going in usapa's favor, yet the company played along while usapa (i.e. the east) wasted two years chasing an out for the Nic.

The difference between you and me is I worked for the also ran airline that is still running. I have watched this stuff before. The east is being played and I cannot believe usapa is stupid enough to think they have any control when they are complicit in their own undoing. Ironically, the West would still help usapa out if they would wise up and go to the people with the expertise on these matters and not shut the West out because it effs up their scab agenda.

The West meanwhile is being told..."ah..I see..this is good you brought it up...it seems like you have a problem with YOUR union.." In other words... what Doug is saying is....yes..you are screwed and I am going to watch while the east screws you, cause if I don't it gets messy with unions rights and it effs up the absolute bargain basement wages I have you all fighting over.

 

[Pi brat]

I agree with you to a a certain extent.

When Parker or Kirby or Isom say something in a crewnews etc.... They are being genuine within the context of their fiduciary responsibility.

However, and for example, when Parker says the company has "accepted" the Nic, but feigns that the he does not know exactly what "accepted" means. Well, ya just have to call BS. On top of that, he wrote a letter accepting the Nic, that affirmed that the company could not use the Nic until a JCBA is reached. He downright dangled the bait in front of the east and you took it hook, line, and sinker.

Here is another one, Kirby straight up told you the LOA93 grievance had a 0% chance of going in usapa's favor, yet the company played along while usapa (i.e. the east) wasted two years chasing an out for the Nic.

The difference between you and me is I worked for the also ran airline that is still running. I have watched this stuff before. The east is being played and I cannot believe usapa is stupid enough to think they have any control when they are complicit in their own undoing. Ironically, the West would still help usapa out if they would wise up and go to the people with the expertise on these matters and not shut the West out because it effs up their scab agenda.

The West meanwhile is being told..."ah..I see..this is good you brought it up...it seems like you have a problem with YOUR union.." In other words... what Doug is saying is....yes..you are screwed and I am going to watch while the east screws you, cause if I don't it gets messy with unions rights and it effs up the absolute bargain basement wages I have you all fighting over.

I agree with you about being played, but guess what? There is no difference between you and me as I too worked for the also ran that is still running. As a matter of fact, my part is the biggest, by far.

 

[Beancounter]

Has anyone elso noticed a lot of American pilots disengaging from discussions with US pilots? A few months ago the AA pilots were eager to converse with US pilots. On a lot of web boards (some dominated by AA pilots) the AA posters have up and vanished, "like a fart in the wind."

Bean

 

[nic4us]

I agree with you about being played, but guess what? There is no difference between you and me as I too worked for the also ran that is still running. As a matter of fact, my part is the biggest, by far.

I must have missed that latest update from Crystal City.

 

[Pi brat]

I must have missed that latest update from Crystal City.

Is that what makes a company? If you are on the Airbus I bet you have been doing a ton of flying through your former powerhouse cities of CLT, PHL and DCA.

It's a mixture of the 2 old companies, but by far, the original US Airways part is bigger and according to the old AWA bosses, more valuable.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes, the lastest is still DOH. Called down yesterday.

Called down where? To hell?

Please explain how you are going to get DOH?

Negotiate with who? The company? The APA? The west? The arbitrator?

Demand, hold your breath, another illegal job action?

Who is still saying this and how will they get it?

 

[cleardirect]

After todays conference call nothing but DOH will be considered.

Great. The men of genius strike again.

So what does the NAC and merger committee do when this arbitrator tells you you are not getting DOH? Leave him no choice again. Kick and scream and blame everyone else for your f' up, again? This time you don't have the majority.

 

[Beancounter]

Yep, we were the airline that wouldn't die. I have heard nothing about DOH again. I heard just the opposite. I'm not sure where you are going with the Delta thing since the worst you can do here is AA Green Book and the retirements will start to kick in soon. Company said they plan to hire 250/year for the forseeable future.

Driver...

Driver,

I like you're positive attitude, but.... What if the merger doesn't happen? If the merger goes through? Even though USAPA has been seriously marginalized, I have been so amazed at their ability to screw things up in the past, I worry. I was hired in 04', I was holding a line prior to the merger, now on reserve. Maybe in a couple years, I'll be back to where I was just prior to the merger making the same friggin' wages. I don't really want to have to start over, but on the other hand I don't want to be like some of the east FO's prior to the merger (bitter and angry after 18 yrs and sitting on reserve). Hopefully in 2013 Delta and Southwest will be hiring. Alaska is currently hiring and will be, but it is very slow, 10 or 20, here and there. Mostly nepetism right now.

Thanks for your input Driver. For those of you that will probably say, "quite whining, you could be furloughed," I was.

Bean