June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Take a deep breath Clear, it will be filed by a bunch of east pilots individually if need be, kind of like Leonidas and Addington. Get it?

Are you sure? Currently it is usapa that has standing. When usapa goes away so does the party to the appeal. So if usapa files it before they go away apa takes over and they will just drop it. Leaving no case to appeal. You only have I believe 40 days from the time of final judgement to file an appeal. If usapa goes away before that a group of individuals would have no standing. You may have to file back in district court starting over. The first question would jurisdiction and standing. Would you care to guess what court and which judge retains justification or that case?

Plus if you file an appeal you don't get the new contract and don't get paid. How much financial support will you get from guys volunteering to pay money and stay on loa 93? If you delay a new contract my bet would be a law suit claiming harm against the guys that filed the suit delaying my contract improvements.

BTW you better read up on class cert. People can opt out and without enough support it does not happen. Also whoever puts their name on the suit is personally responsible for the cost to the lawyer. So if you can't raise enough money that person or person have to write a big check out of their pocket.

Willing to put your name and wallet on the line to appeal it? No forced taxes with union dues anymore. How certain are you that you have a winning case?

Are you beginning to see the box that Parker has put you east guys in? That pine coffin that you turned into the NMB will be the usapa burial box.

How did the MDA case turn out for those guys? Have they paid off the lawyer yet? What was the return on investment for them?

 

[nic4us]

That is funny Nic4. But you quoted the dissent, you know- the guys in the minority who got overruled and did not produce the accepted final and binding ruling. You should be able to grasp that concept by now, but you go out and call me a scab, and then produce a statement that has no legal standing, none. Show me where the dissent opinion is the DECISION of the court, and not just what it is, a statement by the minority who disagree. This is why you and Leonidas keep getting blown away, the grasping at straws of Bybee and company, who are not the majority. Please go back, do your work and produce a statement by the ruling court, that says the Nic has to be used. You can't.

umm...read much??

I qouted the opinion...not the dissent.

Notice the part where it says that an intentional delay would be an DFR? That fits in nicely with the majority's other statement that they did not claim a DFR is never ripe prior to a CBA's ratification.

Bottom line....Nic or "pain of unquestionably ripe DFR".

 

[nic4us]

Take a deep breath and engage your brain before you engage your mouth.

It was the company that filed the DJ. Making it NOT an internal union dispute. It is the company asking the question about what their legal rights or liability are.

Seriously do you really believe that somehow the "Arizona legal system" meaning the FEDERAL legal system would ignore the law? Please explain why they would do that?

Did the federal legal system rule in favor of usapa when they sued for RICO in NC? Was the federal system bias in NC when they found usapa guilty of an illegal job action? Was the NY federal system biased when they dismissed usapa's stupid waste of money law suit there?

BTW. When you lose who exactly is going to file the appeal and pay for it? Usapa will be GONE. A none entity with no legal standing. It takes an average of 18 months for an appeal to work it's way through the circuit court. We will have a contract and seniority arbitration done by that time. Unless you want to wait on your new pay rates. Don't accept the Nicolau you don't get paid. Read the term sheet.

When usapa goes away the APA takes over. Do you think they will waste their time or money with an appeal? After all they will be the bargaining agent representing the majority of pilots. An appeal does not help the group as a whole.

Clear....didn't the NYC case have some reasoning as to why it was dismissed? Something about a scab union intentionally thwarting its own obligation to negotiate and itself being the cause for delay?

That NYC case was the best thing scab Cleary could have done for the West. Documentation by another federal court of usapa's intentional failure of its DFR to promote east at West's expense.

 

[cleardirect]

Now that we are a few weeks into this merger thing and usapa understands it's place at the kiddie table with the company and APA.

You know what we have not seen in any updates for awhile? The constant drum banging of the term "change of control".

What happened to that all mighty and powerful clause? Has Hummel and the lawyers finally figured out that it is worthless and that they were chasing another ghost trying to be relevant?

Anyone still think change of control has any meaning in this merger?

 

[cleardirect]

Clear....didn't the NYC case have some reasoning as to why it was dismissed? Something about a scab union intentionally thwarting its own obligation to negotiate and itself being the cause for delay?

That NYC case was the best thing scab Cleary could have done for the West. Documentation by another federal court of usapa's intentional failure of its DFR to promote east at West's expense.

Yep! How many east pilots do think bothered to read the dismissal?

Probably an inverse number of people that still support Cleary and usapa.

 

[nic4us]

Take a deep breath Clear, it will be filed by a bunch of east pilots individually if need be, kind of like Leonidas and Addington. Get it?

How are a bunch of east pilots going to appeal a ruling they are not a party to???

Take a look at the DJ. Lets see we have the company, the usapa, and the West pilot class.

I do not see individual east pilots listed as a defendant.

Are you saying that usapa is only interested in the promotion of individual east pilots at everyone else's expense and would therefore be obligated to file an appeal?

 

[Ames]

Harm? Are you positive you are being harmed? After all, you have a job and the court may take that view. Consider yourselves lucky to be working at all. After all, that is the Leonidas feeling about the USAir furloughed guys going on the bottom. Prepare for similar treatment.

You quoted me. Where did I mention harm? On the subject of "lucky to have a job" I would say that you and all eastholes are lucky. You were the ones on the brink of liquidation back in 2005, not me.

As far as being prepared, the AWA pilots are ready for anything after dealing with your kind for seven years.

 

[Ames]

How about you then quoting a few "snippets" from the 9th that say the Nic has to be used......... This ought to be very interesting........

The 9th did not say that the Nic had to be used but they did say that ucrapa had to negotiate under the threat of a DFR. I refuse to find quotes for you as I am a proponent of reading the transcripts in their entirity and you know where to find them as well as anyone.

 

[Move2CLT]

Amazing how you boys notice this all of a sudden:

A key point to remember is this: US Airways is not currently in bankruptcy, and they cannot reasonably expect their pilots to concede on critical contract provisions as a result of someone else’s bankruptcy proceedings.

Remember when we were in the process of merging and you didn't remember this point of fact?

 

[nic4us]

The 9th did not say that the Nic had to be used but they did say that ucrapa had to negotiate under the threat of a DFR. I refuse to find quotes for you as I am a proponent of reading the transcripts in their entirity and you know where to find them as well as anyone.

He does not get it Ames.

The 9th outright warns usapa, then scabs like J(Continental) Ray go infront of news cameras and claim the "Supreme Court" has cleared the way for them to steal West jobs.

Disregarding the fact that the SCOTUS did not say anything and that he is a lying scab POS.

 

[nic4us]

Amazing how you boys notice this all of a sudden:

A key point to remember is this: US Airways is not currently in bankruptcy, and they cannot reasonably expect their pilots to concede on critical contract provisions as a result of someone else’s bankruptcy proceedings.

Remember when we were in the process of merging and you didn't remember this point of fact?

Next up,,,,,they will claim they gifted the APA profit sharing as a goodwill gesture, and that usapa arranged for all the financing for a merger by pressuring the PBCG during its pension investigation.

A key point to remember....??....if their delusions were not so damaging, they would be humorous.

 

[Claxon]

He does not get it Ames.

The 9th outright warns usapa, then scabs like J(Continental) Ray go infront of news cameras and claim the "Supreme Court" has cleared the way for them to steal West jobs.

Disregarding the fact that the SCOTUS did not say anything and that he is a lying scab POS.

The westerners are stirring like a nest of hornets that was disturbed today. They are feeling the walls closing. The AA deal seems to be moving quite slowly. Seems the parties involved want to have the AA employees on edge, and worried so they will drag both eastern and western down lower. A difficult situation for both opponents. It does not bode well, but Franke must be smiling at this turn of events as it is exactly how he runs things.
However, this does allow the Judge Silver ruling time to come down, and the appeal to the 9th if necessary. All events Parker wants. He wants division, and discord. This will most likely play out to the 9th again. With the same outcome. Then the AA employees will be sufficiently pliant, and willing to drag both sides down to a new 7 year bankruptcy laden contract. LOA 93 contract combined with an ATSB loan contract with the westerns heaped into a AA bankruptcy deal. This is an especially unappealing situation.
This contract will now be used against the other legacies. Had the westerners been smarter with pay parity long ago, this situation would be much more palatable. Now it will be used against them in spades. For a long, long time.

 

[Res Judicata]

Take a deep breath Clear, it will be filed by a bunch of east pilots individually if need be, kind of like Leonidas and Addington. Get it?

You can bank on it. Personally I can't wait to see you set yourselves up for yet another expensive, epic failure.

 

[Res Judicata]

The westerners are stirring like a nest of hornets that was disturbed today. They are feeling the walls closing. The AA deal seems to be moving quite slowly. Seems the parties involved want to have the AA employees on edge, and worried so they will drag both eastern and western down lower. A difficult situation for both opponents. It does not bode well, but Franke must be smiling at this turn of events as it is exactly how he runs things.
However, this does allow the Judge Silver ruling time to come down, and the appeal to the 9th if necessary. All events Parker wants. He wants division, and discord. This will most likely play out to the 9th again. With the same outcome. Then the AA employees will be sufficiently pliant, and willing to drag both sides down to a new 7 year bankruptcy laden contract. LOA 93 contract combined with an ATSB loan contract with the westerns heaped into a AA bankruptcy deal. This is an especially unappealing situation.
This contract will now be used against the other legacies. Had the westerners been smarter with pay parity long ago, this situation would be much more palatable. Now it will be used against them in spades. For a long, long time.

Meds run out already?

 

[Move2CLT]

Claxon cowers as the merger draws closer. With his dream of DOH long dead and the Nic an inevitable force in the integration, his vitriol and inane posts get longer and even less coherent.