June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

I've no argument with your thoughts there. Had this been resolved via people's LOS being properly respected...this mess wouldn't exist today, and none but the most infantile and self obsessed opportunists would be whining. Were a "do over" possible at this very moment; would you support such using LOS? I'm guessing not.

What's your take on putting anyone with as much as 15+ years more LOS than another person behind that pilot with less ?...Or worse yet = behind EVERYONE else...even literal new hires? All I had to see was THAT crap to conclude there was NO way on earth I'd ever vote for anything with the nic included....period.

We know. To you east guys think DOH/LOS is the only factor that matters for seniority integration.

What is your take on putting someone that is 83% down the list currently a 320 F/O and placing them senior to a 767 captain using LOS?

Don't forget your argument that those are not your wide body airplanes and have no right to fly them.

 

[EastUS1]

We know. To you east guys think DOH/LOS is the only factor that matters for seniority integration.

You're right....astrological signs and pure magic are surely(Shirley?) the best way to go..."Double, double, toil and trouble...WTF's coming from the arbitrators bubble?" 😉 Why worry over such "trivial" concerns as any person's actual experience or years of work performed?

It's my estimation that anything that handed you a free prize you would jump on happily and immediately....disgusting. I can't imagine you even beginning to argue as you do, had you, yourself any worthy LOS to note at all...Why is it I can tell just from your posting history that you do NOT? 😉

'cleardirect "Don't forget your argument that those are not your wide body airplanes and have no right to fly them" I completely agree and have no thoughts of ever doing so. I'm sure fences will be established to prevent such pillaging...What's your point?

 

[nevergiveup]

I would like to know what you mean by that. I have paid my dues based on the choices that I have made. You see, despite the fact that I am an east coast native I chose not to work at US Air. As an investor I knew that airline would not last long. I also knew some US Air pilots at my ANG unit and was exposed to many more while flying in the commuters. Not people I would enjoy working with.

I chose to work at America Westbecause my wife wanted to live somewhere warm and I choose not to commute. I chose not to apply to Northwest, United or Continental for those same reasons. Delta turned me down and I chose the option of turning down Fedex because I don't like all night flying.

I chose the lower payscale at AWA for the lifestyle and the potential that was evident. As promised I made captain in seven years and enjoyed every day at work with some of the best people I have ever had the pleasure of working with. I accepted these conditions on the gamble that pay and benefits might someday improve but never counted on it.

I did not choose this merger and, as mentioned, never wanted to work for US Air. As far as the dues I have paid I believe the Nicolau list places me right where I should be even though I lost 3% relative seniority. The east's desire to cram a DOH list down our throats places formerly furloughed easties more than 700 numbers senior to me. Guys with less actual time on property than I had when this thing was announced. That's not right. Nicolau got it.

Therefore, I choose to fight the east to the very end. I have paid my dues based on the choices I have made. Have you?

You don't pay your dues based on choices. That's one of the most lame examples I have ever heard. If I was in your position I might have said the same thing. Best of luck in your choices though.

 

[cleardirect]

You're right....astrological signs and pure magic are surely(Shirley?) the best way to go..."Double, double, toil and trouble...WTF's coming from the arbitrators bubble?" 😉 Why worry over such "trivial" concerns as any person's actual experience or years of work performed?

It's my estimation that anything that handed you a free prize you would jump on happily and immediately....disgusting. I can't imagine you even beginning to argue as you do, had you, yourself any worthy LOS to note at all...Why is it I can tell just from your posting history that you do NOT? 😉

'cleardirect "Don't forget your argument that those are not your wide body airplanes and have no right to fly them" I completely agree and have no thoughts of ever doing so. I'm sure fences will be established to prevent such pillaging...What's your point?

So noble in your position.

What was the argument when you merged with trump? Was it LOS? No it was W-2, how much did they make.

When you merged with Piedmont was it fence the WB they brought or was it give them to Meeeeeee?

You might have a tiny amount of credibility if you had a consistent position but you east guys are all about what is best for you at the time. If your opinion had any validity then A/M would say time is service or experience is a factor. But it does not. If you had any credibility you would be screaming for your own list to be reordered by LOS. give the Empire guys the credit you seem so concerned about.

Talk about a free prize. Going from deep in the furloughed list to wanting to be senior to our captains. Nice jumping happily and willingly you guys tried.

Justify all you want.Anyone without a dog in the fight sees the truth. You east guys tried to steal this. It ended up costing us all. But karma is the great balancer. You guys are going to find out what it is to be the minority. What it means to have no input. My wish is that APA treats the east just like usapa treated the west.

 

[nic4us]

You don't pay your dues based on choices. That's one of the most lame examples I have ever heard. If I was in your position I might have said the same thing. Best of luck in your choices though.

Maybe not...but you sure pay the price if you make the wrong choices.

In our case...the east chose usapa......you are paying the LOA93 price, an injunction price, a left out of any meaningful input into a merger price.

Ames has few choices left. He can leave and seek better employment elsewhere, or pay the price for remaining at LCC, which amounts to having to deal with a scab union intent on stealing his job.

In the current situation, I bet he chooses to stay, sees if a merger happens, and watches the poor decision makers pay the price and get kicked to the curb like last weeks trash.

 

[nevergiveup]

Maybe not...but you sure pay the price if you make the wrong choices.

In our case...the east chose usapa......you are paying the LOA93 price, an injunction price, a left out of any meaningful input into a merger price.

Ames has few choices left. He can leave and seek better employment elsewhere, or pay the price for remaining at LCC, which amounts to having to deal with a scab union intent on stealing his job.

In the current situation, I bet he chooses to stay, sees if a merger happens, and watches the poor decision makers pay the price and get kicked to the curb like last weeks trash.

Must be nice to be able to just choose whatever airline you wish to work for. I was not so lucky, but I am glad you all were. Cheers!

 

[EastUS1]

You might have a tiny amount of credibility if you had a consistent position but you east guys are all about what is best for you at the time.


Justify all you want.

Well...in the case of some of "you east guys", we're not much, or even at all effected by the nic, yet still see it as an absurd injustice to those who are, and thus worth preventing.....period. If it's even at all possible for you to briefly step outside of the "It's ALL about MEEE!" mindset; try to even begin to process that as you incessantly "Justify all you want".

Speaking of credibility; I must note that you've again exhibited the mindset of one without ANY substantial LOS whatsoever, that nonetheless, feels magically "entitled". One can only wonder as to what possible basis for that exists. Oh yes!..."But the arbitrator said/etc". Oh well.

"...what is best for you at the time." and "Justify all you want" I'll leave to others.

Have a good day regardless.

 

[Keroseneuser]

My wish is that APA treats the east just like usapa treated the west.

My guess is that we are much more likely to not merge with AA than we are to merge with them. Though it has provided much entertainment watching the cat fight over a "Maybe" merger! 🙂

 

[Metroyet]

My guess is that we are much more likely to not merge with AA than we are to merge with them. Though it has provided much entertainment watching the cat fight over a "Maybe" merger! 🙂

If the merger fails, you'll be on loa93 until 90%of the East has retired. Years and years from now.

 

[Keroseneuser]

If the merger fails, you'll be on loa93 until 90%of the East has retired. Years and years from now.

You seem to be more worried about that than I am. Why is that?

 

[Metroyet]

You seem to be more worried about that than I am. Why is that?

Just making an observation that a 3 year Delta FO will be making more than your 30yr NB captains. Glad you don't have a problem with that.

 

[EastUS1]

If the merger fails, you'll be on loa93 until 90%of the East has retired. Years and years from now.

The only thing ever guaranteed about any future period "Years and years from now" is that none can possibly know the nature of that future, and that it will, almost certainly, be far different from anyone's expectations in many ways. Stick around this "life thing" long enough and you'll necessarily learn the truth of that observation. Heck..that's a big part of what makes the whole experience amusing, sometimes downright exciting, and at least interesting 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Just making an observation that a 3 year Delta FO will be making more than your 30yr NB captains. Glad you don't have a problem with that.

And...accepting the nic, along with a warm, fuzzy group hug for the west....would magically change all that?....ummm....how? 😉

 

[Beancounter]

And...accepting the nic, along with a warm, fuzzy group hug for the west....would magically change all that?....ummm....how? 😉

Okay, I understand the fighting the Nic part. I have to ask though. Was it necessary to get an injunction against the union to fight the Nic? Was it necessary to get the negotiations parked? Was it necessary to put the union on the verge of bankruptcy by filing loser after loser frivolous lawsuit?

Bean

 

[A320 Driver]

You guys are going to find out what it is to be the minority. What it means to have no input. My wish is that APA treats the east just like usapa treated the west.

Don't you mean "us guys" ? Since USAPA is the bargaining agent for East AND West, don't we all sink or swim together?

Driver...