June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

I get crew meals.

Besides, the reason most of the east pilots don't get crew meals is because of a contractual negotiation. The reason some on the east do still do get crew meals is also the result of contractual negotiations.

Thank you for pointing that out for us, i.e. that seniority is indeed like crew meals....open for negotiation.

Another of the little lawyers faithful??

What the union buster forgot to tell you idiots is that just "like crew meals" it is negotiable within the constraints of a unions DFR towards the class it represents.

The other thing the scab lawyer convieniently forgot to mention, the class it represents includes the West pilot class.

As affirmed by the 9th, usapa is free to negotiate for all LCC pilots, both east and West.

Now just exactly how a union under injunction and parked by the NMB does any negotiations is beyond my pay grade, but I am guessing it all boils down to scab unions do not get to negotiate diddly.

Negotiate away ole usapa.....scab union, parked, enjoined, marginalized and just months away from a DFR suit that will put you out of bussiness.

 

[Ames]

Most amusing indeed...you would compare a union's proceedings that rationally used DOH and thusly; completely avoided the internecine insanity produced by good old alpa and St. Nic. Are you being at all serious here? 😉

You're obviously clinging onto this portion: "To be clear, the seniority lists of pre-merger US Airways and America West have already been merged according to the AFA Constitution and Bylaws. There will be no attempt to revisit that process." Of course they're not seeking to revisit that process, since it was done in complete accordance with the AFA's constitution. Now...substitute the USAPA constitution here when discussing pilot issues....and you get what difference in circumstances and concerns....? Are you seriously suggesting that the nic is at all in accordance with USAPA's constitution?

You "might" wish to consider other salient points within that post: "AFA Council 66 supports the language in our Constitution addressing seniority when merging two AFA carriers.

The AFA Constitution and Bylaws indicates that AFA will attempt to negotiate a “Date of Hire” or full bidding seniority integration with APFA as specified in AFA’s Constitution and Bylaws."

Look around for alpa....it's long gone. Substitute USAPA for AFA in that last line and you get what result?...A ready acceptance of Nic?...Guess again.

Herein lies the rub, oh great one. The pilot seniority list was merged according to alpa merger policy, the legal representative at the time. Usapa cannot ignore that fact even though they state differently in their cb&l. They inherited all agreements. Doesn't matter if alpa is long gone. Don't you think it could work the other way if contracts and agreements could be ignored simply by changing unions? On day one of ucrapa's mighty reign Doug could have told us that alpa is gone and he will pay us Mesa wages until we negotiate better.

AFA policy mandated DOH. That made things simple. Comparing our situation to theirs is like comparing apples to Volkswagens. I know this dead horse has been beaten to pulp but soon the judge will speak, the company and APA will react and we will all move on.

But..... you guys can keep on dream'in.

 

[EastCheats]

Who is the real Woody? The one who wrote this?

I don’t know Patrick O’Neill, but he has my vote. He is a PHX based guy, with a good reputation. However, in light of the shenanigans of Mr. O’Neill’s opponent….

Ladies and Gentlemen, please finish the job of cleaning house.

Fraternally,

Woody Menear PHL 76i

Or this?

For those unfamiliar, here's some history on Woody. It's a copy of an e-mail from Woody to a West pilot.

From: Woody Menear
Subject: Re: Wondering
Date: October 16, 2008 6:48:23 PM GMT-07:00
To:
**** no, XXXX....I am set for life! Your reputation however, precedes you. Here's the unvarnished deal: the seniority
issue is decided, democratically and legally. I am sorry if your collective "pussies" are hurting...seriously, but wake up and
join.

I've been the "loser" in three, count them, three mergers; and yet, the only system that makes sense is date of hire, even
though I've lost over 1,500 numbers and MILLIONS. It is unambiguous, objective and real. Anything else is a "lick and a
promise". You have been (collectively) seduced by ALPA bullshit, which had little to do with unionism and much to do
with placating the airline who brought in the most dues money.

Well, wake up...new day, new deal. Your seniority buys you what mine does; minus the fact that I've been at this asylum
for 25-years and you have been here, how long?

**** "career expectations"....you don't have a career, thanks to guys like Parker and Wolf and Siegle and a host of other
MBA's from Wharton and other places.

If you idiots stop hating your fellow airmen, who have done the same job as you for a longer time and start focusing on
the Fagans who run this sweatshop, we might all just get out of this with a shred of dignity. Otherwise...do your worst:
we Easties have been trick-****ed by the best....what do you suppose you Embry-Riddle, trust-funders can do to us that
Wolf and ALPA haven't already done?

XXXX, do you remember "Blazing Saddles"? Well, we are the Sheriff, (not the #### PHX chief pilot), Cleavon Little's
solution to a mob who wanted to lynch him is similar to the East outlook; Nobody move, or I'll shoot myself. Get it now,
XXXX?

Eff-you and your aching p---y. We have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN PENSION....and we are done. Get it now?

Fraternally,

Capt. Elwood Menear B767I PHL "A proud Catpiss Pilot"

(perhaps the Martinis have had an effect on my writings?)

 

[Ames]

Fair enough; let's start with any argument you can possibly advance against just the first point being entirely accurate then: "The truth" is that you're seeking artificially enhanced, and entirely undeserved personal advancement over others that have done far more than yourself for this cluster of an airline entity, and have only the utmost contempt for them in the selfish process.....period."

If you feel up to it afterwards; we can proceed from there.

Yes, let's proceed. A 1989 US Air hire, with 6 years actual time serving the company when the merger was announced, and also furloughed at that time, being placed (according to a DOH list) over 700 numbers senior to me (a AWA captain at that same time) with over 7 years LOS. Please explain how I am seeking artificially enhanced, and entirely undeserved personal advancement over others that have done far more than myself. I am all ears!

Oh, and I do have the utmost contempt for those that seek artificially enhanced advancement.

 

[Ames]

Who is the real Woody? The one who wrote this?



Or this?

For those unfamiliar, here's some history on Woody. It's a copy of an e-mail from Woody to a West pilot.

From: Woody Menear
Subject: Re: Wondering
Date: October 16, 2008 6:48:23 PM GMT-07:00
To:
**** no, XXXX....I am set for life! Your reputation however, precedes you. Here's the unvarnished deal: the seniority
issue is decided, democratically and legally. I am sorry if your collective "pussies" are hurting...seriously, but wake up and
join.

I've been the "loser" in three, count them, three mergers; and yet, the only system that makes sense is date of hire, even
though I've lost over 1,500 numbers and MILLIONS. It is unambiguous, objective and real. Anything else is a "lick and a
promise". You have been (collectively) seduced by ALPA bullshit, which had little to do with unionism and much to do
with placating the airline who brought in the most dues money.

Well, wake up...new day, new deal. Your seniority buys you what mine does; minus the fact that I've been at this asylum
for 25-years and you have been here, how long?

**** "career expectations"....you don't have a career, thanks to guys like Parker and Wolf and Siegle and a host of other
MBA's from Wharton and other places.

If you idiots stop hating your fellow airmen, who have done the same job as you for a longer time and start focusing on
the Fagans who run this sweatshop, we might all just get out of this with a shred of dignity. Otherwise...do your worst:
we Easties have been trick-****ed by the best....what do you suppose you Embry-Riddle, trust-funders can do to us that
Wolf and ALPA haven't already done?

XXXX, do you remember "Blazing Saddles"? Well, we are the Sheriff, (not the #### PHX chief pilot), Cleavon Little's
solution to a mob who wanted to lynch him is similar to the East outlook; Nobody move, or I'll shoot myself. Get it now,
XXXX?

Eff-you and your aching p---y. We have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN PENSION....and we are done. Get it now?

Fraternally,

Capt. Elwood Menear B767I PHL "A proud Catpiss Pilot"

(perhaps the Martinis have had an effect on my writings?)

It just doesn't matter who Woody is. These guys are all cut from the same cloth. Keep it simple. Trust NOT ONE of them.

 

[Res Judicata]

I get crew meals.

Besides, the reason most of the east pilots don't get crew meals is because of a contractual negotiation. The reason some on the east do still do get crew meals is also the result of contractual negotiations.

Thank you for pointing that out for us, i.e. that seniority is indeed like crew meals....open for negotiation.

Then why is absolutey NOBODY negotiating seniority with USCABA? They never have. Never will.

 

[Beancounter]

Then why is absolutey NOBODY negotiating seniority with USCABA? They never have. Never will.

http://youtu.be/Nd4VkBcG2PQ

Because USAPA is sitting in the corner, tied up, gagged, wearing a clown mask, with a dunce hat on.

 

[fatherabraham]

Who is the real Woody? The one who wrote this?



Or this?

For those unfamiliar, here's some history on Woody. It's a copy of an e-mail from Woody to a West pilot.

From: Woody Menear
Subject: Re: Wondering
Date: October 16, 2008 6:48:23 PM GMT-07:00
To:
**** no, XXXX....I am set for life! Your reputation however, precedes you. Here's the unvarnished deal: the seniority
issue is decided, democratically and legally. I am sorry if your collective "pussies" are hurting...seriously, but wake up and
join.

I've been the "loser" in three, count them, three mergers; and yet, the only system that makes sense is date of hire, even
though I've lost over 1,500 numbers and MILLIONS. It is unambiguous, objective and real. Anything else is a "lick and a
promise". You have been (collectively) seduced by ALPA bullshit, which had little to do with unionism and much to do
with placating the airline who brought in the most dues money.

Well, wake up...new day, new deal. Your seniority buys you what mine does; minus the fact that I've been at this asylum
for 25-years and you have been here, how long?

**** "career expectations"....you don't have a career, thanks to guys like Parker and Wolf and Siegle and a host of other
MBA's from Wharton and other places.

If you idiots stop hating your fellow airmen, who have done the same job as you for a longer time and start focusing on
the Fagans who run this sweatshop, we might all just get out of this with a shred of dignity. Otherwise...do your worst:
we Easties have been trick-****ed by the best....what do you suppose you Embry-Riddle, trust-funders can do to us that
Wolf and ALPA haven't already done?

XXXX, do you remember "Blazing Saddles"? Well, we are the Sheriff, (not the #### PHX chief pilot), Cleavon Little's
solution to a mob who wanted to lynch him is similar to the East outlook; Nobody move, or I'll shoot myself. Get it now,
XXXX?

Eff-you and your aching p---y. We have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN PENSION....and we are done. Get it now?

Fraternally,

Capt. Elwood Menear B767I PHL "A proud Catpiss Pilot"

(perhaps the Martinis have had an effect on my writings?)

I take back everything I've said against " freewoody " !
Can only hope he thinks same today as then.

FA

 

[EastCheats]

I take back everything I've said against " freewoody " !
Can only hope he thinks same today as then.

FA

Do bears crap in the woods? If it smells like Manure......

 

[Ames]

I take back everything I've said against " freewoody " !
Can only hope he thinks same today as then.

FA

Like I said, cut from the same cloth.

 

[fodase]

Well as expected you don't skip an oppurtunity to look like a complete knuckle dragging buffoon

Most amusing indeed...you would compare a union's proceedings that rationally used DOH and thusly; completely avoided the internecine insanity produced by good old alpa and St. Nic. Are you being at all serious here? 😉

You're obviously clinging onto this portion: "To be clear, the seniority lists of pre-merger US Airways and America West have already been merged according to the AFA Constitution and Bylaws. There will be no attempt to revisit that process." Of course they're not seeking to revisit that process, since it was done in complete accordance with the AFA's constitution.

The Nicolau was done in complete accordance with alpa constitution, just like the afa

Now...substitute the USAPA constitution here when discussing pilot issues....and you get what difference in circumstances and concerns....?

Are you stupid enough to be suggesting usapa merger policy is retroactive? that it supercedes it's existence? Don't embarass yourself and the rest of the clowns any further.

Are you seriously suggesting that the nic is at all in accordance with USAPA's constitution?

Again are you saying usapa's constitution is retroactive? Because usapa wasn't our union when the merger happen and the list was produced.

You "might" wish to consider other salient points within that post: "AFA Council 66 supports the language in our Constitution addressing seniority when merging two AFA carriers.

The AFA Constitution and Bylaws indicates that AFA will attempt to negotiate a “Date of Hire” or full bidding seniority integration with APFA as specified in AFA’s Constitution and Bylaws."

Look around for alpa....it's long gone. Substitute USAPA for AFA in that last line and you get what result?...A ready acceptance of Nic?...Guess again.

Well USAPA is free to pursue DOH with this new merger since they are the current cba. I again ask you, does usapa policy apply retroactivelly?

 

[fodase]

Fair enough; let's start with any argument you can possibly advance against just the first point being entirely accurate then: "The truth" is that you're seeking artificially enhanced, and entirely undeserved personal advancement over others that have done far more than yourself for this cluster of an airline entity, and have only the utmost contempt for them in the selfish process.....period."

If you feel up to it afterwards; we can proceed from there.

Nah we need to start with the premise you are an idiot clown, and obviously suffer some kind of comprehension handicap (common in clowns). Only a retarded clown would take anything you wrote as anything but opinion. Talk to me when you learn the difference between facts and opinions.

 

[EastUS1]

Well USAPA is free to pursue DOH with this new merger since they are the current cba.

Agreed. All the rest is just chaff.

 

[fodase]

Agreed. All the rest is just chaff.

No it's not chaff, usapa and it's policy's are not retroactive to a merger and list that was completed before usapa was the cba. BTW good luck with DOH or nothing with the APA.

 

[EastUS1]

fodase: Well USAPA is free to pursue DOH with this new merger since they are the current cba.

No it's not chaff, usapa and it's policy's are not retroactive to a merger and list that was completed before usapa was the cba.

So which is it? "USAPA is free to pursue DOH with this new merger since they are the current cba" or they're bound to the nic? In the event it escaped you when you posted those; the two statements are mutually exclusive of each either within any logically possible construction. Make up your mind.

No matter...Don't strain yourself to excess here. Perhaps just some additonal forwarding of more wonderfully elegant clown variants might prove soothing...instead of undertaking any necessarily Herculean efforts by actually trying to think 😉