June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

So that was you! I dont need to, your wife takes care of that for me. LMFAO

I was wondering why she comes home feeling so unsatisfied. LMFAO.

Thanks. She appreciates me more now.

Oh, she says to tell you to come out of the closet. You'll be happier following your true desire.

 

[Metroyet]

Yes, we are way overdressed for the respect we get. But at least we can always count on a large group of our brothers to tell us how unimportant and nonexistent the attrition really is.. the same attrition that they spend millions to get. And they think they know who the idiots are.

they're spending millions of dollars to keep you from stealing their jobs and rebuilding your horrible career at their expense. Nobody...literally nobody I've ever talked to out here, gives at rats a** about your handful of wide body seats or the "attrition" you think is coming. You know exactly what kind of injustice the East via a fake union have tried to perpetrate against the west....it has been the most expensive mistake you'll ever make...next to not quitting what was obviously a loser airline decades ago.

 

[EastUS1]

And in 8 years its 1600+ retired.

After all the retirements mean nothing right?

Indeed sir. Ya' just have to get a chuckle from the typically arrogant, and somehow magically entitled "your" attrition part...as if such was presumably, somehow "earned" by the likes of the poster...just by having this abortion of a merger, and personally doing NOTHING other than going along for the ride......Kinda' tells a person all they need to know there.

Some people will just never give up trying to "sell" the nic.......

 

[EastUS1]

.literally nobody I've ever talked to out here, gives at rats a** about your handful of wide body seats or the "attrition" you think is coming.

So then; What's the problem? Why even bring up attrition at all?

 

[EastUS1]

Yes, we are way overdressed for the respect we get. But at least we can always count on a large group of our brothers to tell us how unimportant and nonexistent the attrition really is.. the same attrition that they spend millions to get. And they think they know who the idiots are.

Indeed sir 😉...especially on the overdressed for the respect we get part....

 

[luvthe9]

Gentlemen

I know you east guys have the mantra that “your” attrition is valuable and it is going to be huge. Have any of you looked at the actual numbers or just listened to the crew room propaganda?

Oh I know you all are going to be captains or moving to that WB as soon as that attrition kicks in.

Looking at the retirements it says between 2012 and 2016 the next 5 years you should have 976 east pilots leave the seniority list. But according to the over 60 list usapa put out there are only 638 holding positions. Right off the bat 34.6% of your “attrition” means nothing because it does not open a slot.

Of those 638 over 60, 155 are F/O’s, 25% of the retirements stand alone are F/O’s. The Nicolau is not keeping anyone from upgrading it was your career and the airline you worked for. Oh I know the argument. But those are wide body positions. Have you counted them? Of the 638 retirements 38 from the 767 and 46 from the 330 are f/o’s. So you guys are delaying a contract and fighting arbitration for the last 5 years because you want 84 wide body F/O position that pay $98 and $109 respectively. With a new contract you could have had that for the NB.

What is it that you guys have been waiting around for the last 20 years? Here is your rocket ship of attrition.
Broken down by fleet:
E190 19 (2 F/O)
737 83
AB 265
767 140 (102 captain, 38 F/O)
330 133 (87 captain, 46 F/O)

The junior 767 F/O is seniority number 3094 out of 3446. So just how desirable are those WB F/O slots if it goes down to 89.7% of the list. As we stand almost everyone has a chance to bid the WB if you want. So all this talk about the attrition moving east F/O to the WB really we are talking about the bottom 350 guys that can’t bid it yet.

Total of 38 WB captain slot per year for the next 5 years. 17 WB F/O slots per year for the next 5 years.
Total of 59 NB (including 190) captain slots per year for the next 5 years, 16 NB F/O position per year for the next 5 years.

I hope it was worth it. The delay that you east guys demanded, giving away somewhere between $50,000.00 and $100,000. Most of you could bid the 767 right now if you wanted to but obviously you don’t since it went so junior. Unless you are within 300 numbers of upgrade you will not get that captain seat even stand alone for the next 5 years. Willing to put off a contract for another 5 years? Think Parker will let it go that long? What do you think is going to happen in an AA merger? Are you going to demand a share of the AA attrition, WB and upgrades or tell them you only want what you brought to the merger?

Once again the east overplayed a weak hand trying to put way more value on what you have than what it is really worth.

Ashame AOL has cost the senior west pilots all this money they would have been able to bid the 330/767 once again the west has overplayed their hand and now with the merge with AA they will lose even more, hope it was worth it!!

 

[EastUS1]

Willing to put off a contract for another 5 years? Think Parker will let it go that long? What do you think is going to happen in an AA merger? Are you going to demand a share of the AA attrition, WB and upgrades or tell them you only want what you brought to the merger?

"Think Parker will let it go that long?" "Shirley" you can't be serious! Parker loves the savings and the whole situation. In case it's escaped you entirely; It's already been over five years.

"What do you think is going to happen in an AA merger?" Who knows?

"....or tell them you only want what you brought to the merger?" = Works for me...."some" others might want to consider a bit less personal greed...just sayin' 😉

 

[Metroyet]

So then; What's the problem? Why even bring up attrition at all?

The problem is your group pulled one of the most underhanded, no-integrity attempted land grabs in the history of organized labor. I only mention the attrition because most of you have gotten the idea that the West is sitting over here salivating at what you perceive to be of value. They aren't. They just aren't going to roll over and let you strip them of the careers they're entitiled to. Obviously there's a little problem with Sehams plan No? 5 years on and no end in sight of LOA93. If American falls apart you go back to where you were. Parked, Injuncted, and completely ignored. Is that the union you thought you were getting?

 

[nic4us]

Some people will just never give up trying to "sell" the nic.......

Don't need to sell the Nic......the company already bought it for $600,000.

Not a bad investment seeing it has saved them easily over $600,000,000.00.


I think Clear's point is of that 600 million, the east is paying a bigger portion living and working on LOA93 trying to avoid the Nic which in the end is the only system seniority list at LCC and eventually will be implemented, so all the lost work and wages will have gone for naught.

 

[nic4us]

Ashame AOL has cost the senior west pilots all this money they would have been able to bid the 330/767 once again the west has overplayed their hand and now with the merge with AA they will lose even more, hope it was worth it!!

Um......

How is taking a pay cut to go to the 330 costing senior West pilots money?


Um......

In an LCC/AMR merger the Nic will be the system seniority list for LCC in any seniority integration.....but what happened to yesterdays elation from you about the AMR merger ain't going to happen?

 

[cleardirect]

And in 8 years its 1600+ retired.

But since you feel that the numbers are not worth it, I am sure you will have no problem agreeing for east to keep their retirements and west to keep theirs. East retires east gets the seat, west retires west gets the seat. That way we can all get the new contract and a raise.

After all the retirements mean nothing right?

1600+? Really

Where did you get your math skills? Or once again over stating the value by double.

When this merger happen J Zeigler Jr. was number 3173 his current seniority number is 2555.Tthat would only be 618 over the last 8 years not 1600+. 77 a year off the seniority list. We know that you have somewhere between 25%-34% inactive pilots on your list. Effectively opening only 51 to 58 per year.

If you want to count the 1000 furloughed pilot that did not return you can get to the 1600 but a furloughed pilot not returning is not attrition.

Part of the movement has been the 270 additional pilot management has decided to add to the east while shrinking the west.

After 8 years of dealing with the east and your attempted theft abd attacks I am not giving anything, you guys can go screw yourself. Beside agreeing to anything with an east pilots means nothing as you have no honor and can't be trusted to keep your word.

 

[Keroseneuser]

After 8 years of dealing with the east and your attempted theft abd attacks I am not giving anything, you guys can go screw yourself. Beside agreeing to anything with an east pilots means nothing as you have no honor and can't be trusted to keep your word.

So I guess that means you do see value in our attrition, if there was zero value there you would not have any problem "Giving" us "OUR" attrition.

You and I are discussing only one thing here, east attrition. I find it quite telling about your intentions when you are telling me to go screw myself over attempted "theft" of east attrition by the EAST!

But no that can't be right since you say you have no interest in our attrition.

Tell you what, you leave us alone and we will leave you alone. You make more than we do so there should be no issues between us.

 

[cleardirect]

Don't need to sell the Nic......the company already bought it for $600,000.

Not a bad investment seeing it has saved them easily over $600,000,000.00.


I think Clear's point is of that 600 million, the east is paying a bigger portion living and working on LOA93 trying to avoid the Nic which in the end is the only system seniority list at LCC and eventually will be implemented, so all the lost work and wages will have gone for naught.

Min. $600 million, 3500 east pilots. So that is $171,000. each and every east pilot has given away so far. Damn that is a hell of a lot more than a couple west pilot getting to upgrade to the undesirable WB.

So the east pilots that are already captains gave away $171 G's so 300 east pilots could upgrade. $2 million a captain seat. That is a steep price to pay.

 

[cleardirect]

So I guess that means you do see value in our attrition, if there was zero value there you would not have any problem "Giving" us "OUR" attrition.

You and I are discussing only one thing here, east attrition. I find it quite telling about your intentions when you are telling me to go screw myself over attempted "theft" of east attrition by the EAST!

But no that can't be right since you say you have no interest in our attrition.

Tell you what, you leave us alone and we will leave you alone. You make more than we do so there should be no issues between us.

Read carefully. I did not say it has zero value. I said it has a lot less value than you are putting on it.

Now if you all thought that your attrition was so valuable then why didn't you protect that during arbitration? Give up on the DOH dream and protect the seats? No you could not do that because you wanted everything. You wanted your attrition, our attrition and everything else.

After 8 years of east pilot crap I am going to get everything I can get and work hard to see that the east pilots pay for your dishonor.

 

[fatherabraham]

The problem is your group pulled one of the most underhanded, no-integrity attempted land grabs in the history of organized labor. I only mention the attrition because most of you have gotten the idea that the West is sitting over here salivating at what you perceive to be of value. They aren't. They just aren't going to roll over and let you strip them of the careers they're entitiled to. Obviously there's a little problem with Sehams plan No? 5 years on and no end in sight of LOA93. If American falls apart you go back to where you were. Parked, Injuncted, and completely ignored. Is that the union you thought you were getting?

Met,
1- so career entitlement at AWA trumps AAA in your mind
2- in many different ways you attempt to sway me into believing loa93 duration / injunctions / company ignores of USAPA etc are tied to myself bending over/spreading wide for Nic.
I don't buy any of it and never have. None of above YOUR leverage.......Do ya GET IT?


FA