June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Sorry Move, I've adapted long time ago to LOA93, it's really not a big concern at least to me.

Adapted to substandard, bottom of the industry wages - great work. Good to see you comfortable down there.

Way to put in the effort.

 

[cleardirect]

Oscar,

DP loves to bemoan " IF only we we had a combined pilot group " all would be utopia in negotiating a contract and the " faux lottery ticket " holders cling to every DP word in dire hopes the East will " drink the cool aide ".

FIVE + years and fewer East folk ready to swallow the Jim Jones juice each and every day that passes.

DP is using our dispute to clearly NOT bargain in good faith and our pathetic government is allowing it to happen. Simple as that!

It's DP's MO and untill outside forces change his motivation, I expect no change.

FA

In your opinion Parker is not bargaining in good faith.

The NMB says not true.
A federal judge in NY that dismissed usapa bad faith case says that is not true.

the outside force that is going to change that is Parker getting rid of usapa and making the east a minority.

 

[Move2CLT]

Oscar,

DP loves to bemoan " IF only we we had a combined pilot group " all would be utopia in negotiating a contract and the " faux lottery ticket " holders cling to every DP word in dire hopes the East will " drink the cool aide ".

FIVE + years and fewer East folk ready to swallow the Jim Jones juice each and every day that passes.

DP is using our dispute to clearly NOT bargain in good faith and our pathetic government is allowing it to happen. Simple as that!

It's DP's MO and untill outside forces change his motivation, I expect no change.

FA

Not bargaining in good faith?

Who had the injunction slapped them again?

Who got parked?

Hint - it wasn't Parker.

 

[EastUS1]

.....the careers they're entitiled to.

"they're entitled to"?...Ummm....I mean seriously....?....You actually said ENTITLED to? Sigh!... I think we're done with this bit here 😉

 

[Move2CLT]

Not really Move. In a hypothetical place where the f/o pay rates are $9.75 more an hour than current captain pay rates then yes, NIC could pass. Due to the fact that every single pilot at the airline would in effect be an instant captain pay wise.

Now the chances that Doug would ever in his wildest dreams offer such a payrate AND not gut every other part of the contract in doing so is somewhere around the same chances that I have of being voted Time magazines next sexiest man of the year. Which is zero.

So while technically yes you could get a NIC to pass on a vote in a perfect world. It is not going to happen.

Blah, blah, blah.

Bottom line is you can be bought.

But you don't have to worry about choking on your pride - Parker is negotiating your contract as we speak.

 

[EastUS1]

In your opinion Parker is not bargaining in good faith.

Move2clt: "Not bargain in good faith?"

You're both just joking here...right? Ummm...aren't you? 😉

Sheesh! It gets worse. Callaway: "...now you also get to self-determine what is or is not good faith negotiations?"

I can't be reading this right. if I was...that would mean you all truly believe team tempe is an above board operation that's actually acting in good faith in dealings with employee groups. Whew!...Ok then. I give up...must be something put in what little water there is out there...just plain, downright unbelievable.

 

[nevergiveup]

Adapted to substandard, bottom of the industry wages - great work. Good to see you comfortable down there.

Way to put in the effort.

Still crying about someone else's pay rate. Nothing new today.

 

[Move2CLT]

Still crying about someone else's pay rate. Nothing new today.

That's laughter you're hearing, not crying.

And yes, me laughing at you is nothing new today

 

[Beancounter]

Not bargaining in good faith?

Who had the injunction slapped them again?

Who got parked?

Hint - it wasn't Parker.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

I love it when some on the east solely blame Doug Parker as the reason we don't have a new contract. You want to see who is responsible? Go look in the %*&#$ing mirror! Then please bend over and ask someone to kick you squarely in the arse. Is Doug taking advantage of the situation? Of course he is, what do you expect. Like Move said; Who got spanked and parked in the corner? Here's a hint: It's the same wonderful organization that is negotiating in bad faith and blatantly failing to represent it's members. Rant over.

Yes, I just got done listening to a friend at Delta, talking about his new BMW motorcycle and fishing boat.

Screw the boat, the motorcycle, and a captain upgrade. I'd just like to be able to put the kids thru college and be able to retire when 65 arrives.

Okay, rant finally over.

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

Well in the last 10 months I have move up 57 numbers with "officially" no retirements going on. Age 65 does not kick in till december. So yes i do think our attrition has the value that I am putting on it.

Why didn't they protect the attrition instead of going for DOH? I have no clue and it is a huge screw job as far as i am concerened. But that was ALPA and seeing as how that little tidbit was the last straw that ended up with them tossed off the property, Its just a guess but I suspect most of my east co workers feel the same way about how they went about it.

Contrary to what you want to believe the line pilots had very little say in how ALPA handled that process. They did have a say in booting ALPA out of the place though. So if you want to see what was important to the line guys all you have to do is see how they reacted to ALPA East MEC's direction they took in the negotiations with the west.

Having said that you won't find too many on the east that agree with half the militant stuff we saw out of USAPA the last couple years either. Hoping the new leaders are more moderate. However at the east we basically have 2 types of pilots on the line now. Those guys that know no matter what even in an AMR merger that they won't see any gain out of it and are finishing up till 65. And the guys junior to them that know they are completly screwed under NIC because it gives up the only thing they have gong for them...their attrition.

Well how junior are you?

Pilot Permanent Bid 11-04
September 2011

Varini seniority number 3306

Pilot Permanent Bid 12-03
September 2012

Varini seniority number 3256

Difference 50

How is it you moved up 57 number while Varini only moved up 50 and he is very near the bottom of the list?

As far as blaming alpa. It was the east pilot you and all your friends that demanded DOH/LOS and refused to allow your MC to move off that position. alpa national did not tell you what to do. Your MEC just did what you told them to do. Maybe you forgot about the petition that was floating around demanding DOH.

You blame alpa for no being responsive to the pilots. But now you say that usapa the new and wonderful union that you all wanted was doing militant stuff that half the pilots did not want either. How could that be? Is it the union or is it the pilots that allow it to happen or perhaps that is what the pilots want to happen.

The line pilots wanted usapa to attack the west. The line pilots wanted alpa to demand DOH.

 

[EastUS1]

I love it when some on the east solely blame Doug Parker as the reason we don't have a new contract.

I, by no means, believe it's solely his doing. I doubt Mr. parker does much more than set company expectations/numbers/etc, and then sics his subordinates to hack away at labor.

On the other hand, whenever phrases like "It's the right thing to do" are heard..well..one just has to laugh 😉

 

[CallawayGolf]

I, by no means, believe it's solely his doing. I doubt Mr. parker does much more than set company expectations/numbers/etc, and then sics his subordinates to hack away at labor.

On the other hand, whenever phrases like "It's the right thing to do" are heard..well..one just has to laugh 😉

I didn't know USAPA considered itself subordinate to Doug. Well they certainly are hacking away at the largest labor expenditure on the property that's for sure.

 

[EastUS1]

I didn't know USAPA considered itself subordinate to Doug. Well they certainly are hacking away at the largest labor expenditure on the property that's for sure.

I don't speak for USAPA. Do you speak for "Doug"? 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

As far as blaming alpa. It was the east pilot you and all your friends that demanded DOH/LOS and refused to allow your MC to move off that position. alpa national did not tell you what to do. Your MEC just did what you told them to do. Maybe you forgot about the petition that was floating around demanding DOH.

The easties do so love to revise history....gotta keep it in line with the rest of their fantasy...

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

I don't speak for USAPA. Do you speak for "Doug"? 😉

Nope. Never claimed to either.