Ladies and Gentlemen:How do we best fix this mess?

[exB717Flyer]

Back to the original post in this thread: what should we do now? Great question!

First, one has to define exactly what the East pilots want. We know they want to throw out the Nicolau Award but that'll leave us still needing an integration solution. What then? ALPA Merger Policy still rules. Would another arbitrator be acceptable? What if the other arbitrator rules similarly to Nicolau?

My point is the East needs to have a plan beyond dumping what they feel is an unfair integration. Aside from both sides mutually negotiating an integration what method would they consider "fair"?

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Charlie Tuna, I think that is the first correct thing you have said on this board. The sandcastle couldn't care less if the unions merge or not. We should stay seperate ops. Merge the certs, give the east pilots the pay raise, give the west ramp/gate agents the raise keep occ in PIT, and keep soc in PHX and be done with all this.

Actually I didn't say that sorry you missed the sarcasm in my post.

So did you mean "first correct thing" I said in this thread or the whole board? Because to straight out lie about my posts serves only to discredit what you say. All I ever post are my opinions (which may or may not be correct) and/or facts (which I post a lot of)

So saying the Pilots agreed to binding arbitration is incorrect? That right there proves you post is misleading at best.

Actually my math formula is a whole lot more scientific and accurate than the poll irony not withstanding.

Anyone with a background in Customer Service/Sales will tell you that the ratio of actual complaints to actual unhappy customers is about 10 to 1.

Actually Bobby it is using a message board to compare to the outside world to base your math is what is flawed. Come on man get with it. I attacked your math and penchant for posting thing about yourself. Look at your post..who is really ticked and attacking? LOL..Got ya

 

[LCC_#1]

I find it appauling that the East pilots are being sore loosers. Being upset is acceptable. Being a baby isn't. Binding arbitration is a roll of the dice. I am disgusted with the decision, but the decision has been made and disrupting operations or not being focused is not acceptable. Beacuse ALPA is filled with a bunch of pussies, you guys had no direct DOH protection, unlike the AFA.

And the gloating from some on the West show how totally SICK IN THE HEAD you are. Not to worry, you are the ONLY group that will be able to leap with 2 years over someone with 20, so enjoy. And just remember. You TOO will one day have 20 years and you better hope and pray US Airways gets its crap together or you will be in the same boat.

I hope this is a wake up call to 2 groups....1. US Airways East pilots....How many of you REALLY have been involved in this process and just sat back and had faith in the ALPA leaders? GET INVOLVED!!....2. Senority based airline employees everywhere...If an arbitrator can be allowed to place an employee with 2 years over one with 20, I shutter at the thought of what will happen with those with no language protection in your contract.

This arbitrator has cracked open the door of senority devaluation.

 

[soc-hpjester]

Charlie Tuna, Your post #6 was right on the money.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I find it appauling that the East pilots are being sore loosers. Being upset is acceptable. Being a baby isn't. Binding arbitration is a roll of the dice. I am disgusted with the decision, but the decision has been made and disrupting operations or not being focused is not acceptable. Beacuse ALPA is filled with a bunch of pussies, you guys had no direct DOH protection, unlike the AFA.

And the gloating from some on the West show how totally SICK IN THE HEAD you are. Not to worry, you are the ONLY group that will be able to leap with 2 years over someone with 20, so enjoy. And just remember. You TOO will one day have 20 years and you better hope and pray US Airways gets its crap together or you will be in the same boat.

I hope this is a wake up call to 2 groups....1. US Airways East pilots....How many of you REALLY have been involved in this process and just sat back and had faith in the ALPA leaders? GET INVOLVED!!....2. Senority based airline employees everywhere...If an arbitrator can be allowed to place an employee with 2 years over one with 20, I shutter at the thought of what will happen with those with no language protection in your contract.

This arbitrator has cracked open the door of senority devaluation.

Excellent post except seriously how many West Pilots are gloating on here compared to the cry babies East you talk about and how many of the gloaters were brought out just because they got sick of the whines and threats from the East?

Charlie Tuna, Your post #6 was right on the money.

Care to expand? Was it the companies cystal ball part you agreed with?

This is the part that is right on imo "Get over blaming others. The East union put you where you are today. No worries though it will blow over and the East will except what they brought upon themselves"

 

[LCC_#1]

Excellent post except seriously how many West Pilots are gloating on here compared to the cry babies East

Well the percentages will always be in favor of the East pilots as this website has always been US Airways (original) heavy and since the East pilots essentially loss, they will have the loudest voices for a while.

 

[soc-hpjester]

Tuna, I think the crystal ball is accurate so far, everything is playing out perfect. Except shares of course and DOH for non-revs, but that is another fight.
As far as the pilots go, if the west pilots lost everything and were stapled and if even one HP pilot complained I would love to here the comments from the east of " just suck it up". There would be no sympathy.

 

[LCC_#1]

Tuna, I think the crystal ball is accurate so far, everything is playing out perfect. Except shares of course and DOH for non-revs, but that is another fight.
As far as the pilots go, if the west pilots lost everything and were stapled and if even one HP pilot complained I would love to here the comments from the east of " just suck it up". There would be no sympathy.

I totally disagree with you. NOWHERE in the history of the many mergers with US Airways has ALPA or ANY pilot remotely suggested stapeling a pilot group to the bottom of the senority list. Piedmont placed the Empire pilots on the bottom, but was done so because of their refusal to join ALPA in the past. But USAIR of yesteryear would NEVER do that.

Your statement is out of line.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Here is a point I am very concenred about.

Considering the toxic relationship that now exists between the East and West pilots, if the Nicolau Award was every implemented and 30-year old America West 6-year seniority Captain was in the left seat and a 50-year old 20-year tenure US Airways First Officer was in the right seat there would be enormous pressure and conflict in the cockpit.

Considering all of the Employee Assistance Program activity that now exists this could create a very unsafe situation in the cockpit, which I know the Safety Department and FAA are concerned about.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Harry Callahan]

Here is a point I am very concenred about.

Considering the toxic relationship that now exists between the East and West pilots, if the Nicolau Award was every implemented and 30-year old America West 6-year seniority Captain was in the left seat and a 50-year old 20-year tenure US Airways First Officer was in the right seat there would be enormous pressure and conflict in the cockpit.

Considering all of the Employee Assistance Program activity that now exists this could create a very unsafe situation in the cockpit, which I know the Safety Department and FAA are concerned about.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Got to give our Capt. credit. He is right on on this one.

 

[LCC_#1]

Here is a point I am very concenred about.

Considering the toxic relationship that now exists between the East and West pilots, if the Nicolau Award was every implemented and 30-year old America West 6-year seniority Captain was in the left seat and a 50-year old 20-year tenure US Airways First Officer was in the right seat there would be enormous pressure and conflict in the cockpit.

Considering all of the Employee Assistance Program activity that now exists this could create a very unsafe situation in the cockpit, which I know the Safety Department and FAA are concerned about.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

That is why I will not hesitate in getting off a trip where the cockpit is in turmoil.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I read the award and unless someone can tell me something other than "HOLY SENIORITY, BATMAN LOOK AT MY NUMBER" I don't see alot to complain about.

Bob do you realize what the mediation/arbitration was about? Does seniority and numbers ring a bell?? Of course seniority and number goes hand and hand with career expectations and many other things.

I don't deny that some Pilots have something to complain about but it doesn't matter how the award was different then it is now you will still have some that are going to complain still have some that are going to think it is fair and still have some that are going to think it is unfair.

My problem with the whole thing is the East Pilots crying and trying to hold everyone else hostage because they feel the got a raw deal on a award that they agreed to accept as legally binding. The sourest of grapes. Even IF the East got their way now do you ever think West would become content after going all-in and then having rug pulled out from under them?

 

[safety stud]

Well since we are dealing with such HIGHLY unscientific things how about explaining why those 50 Pilots haven't made their voice known in my poll?

Did East Pilots agree to binding arbitration?(of course this should be 100% yes. So we know they don't have a clue or are liars.
yes 34 no 9
79.07% to 20.93%

Should East Pilots live up to their word?
yes 33 no 10
76.74% to 23.26%

Are all these bad sport East Pilots posting just a bunch of hotair?
yes 25 no 18
58.14% to 41.86%

Hmm maybe they are shy about voting.

Well Tuna Breath...
I have a fix for you...
Fire all WEST EMPLOYEES, Send east to PHX and LAS...
Done deal...
And my numbers on the east are all 100%
There...
Like my math...

 

[exB717Flyer]

Considering the toxic relationship that now exists between the East and West pilots, if the Nicolau Award was every implemented and 30-year old America West 6-year seniority Captain was in the left seat and a 50-year old 20-year tenure US Airways First Officer was in the right seat there would be enormous pressure and conflict in the cockpit.

Point One: why is there a "toxic" relationship? Did the AWA pilots do anything to cause toxicity? Point Two: a professional pilot does his job or removes him/herself if unable. Problem solved.

 

[EastUS]

"Point One: why is there a "toxic" relationship?"

Do you live on the planet earth? Are you actually able to read these boards?