Ladies and Gentlemen:How do we best fix this mess?

[Piedmont1984]

So what did you do on Monday? Stop by "Spines R Us"? Hope you bought enough for everybody 😀

Looking at the recent history of US ALPA you'd think the MEC Presidents name was Ben Dover 😛

Have you even put a pencil and calculator to this decision and do you know how it effects you?

All of this poop stirring serves little purpose and you know in your heart that your group doesn't have the will to kick ALPA anyplace. We know this because of their track record with the RC 4 and all of that.

Now now, you are completely disregarding the "last straw" school of thought when it comes to this pilot group.

 

[TechBoy]

Here is the bottom line.

The US Airways East pilots will never agree to the Nicolau seniority list award and can legally delay or possibly prevent its implementation for years-and-years to come. Thus, what are the options moving forward?

1. Continue a biter fight amongst one another and not obtain a new joint contract. Operate separately . . .

2. The solution: Preserve the career expectations of both the America West and US Airways pilots by creating permanence fences around West and East Coast Crew bases.

And what is the difference between your two proposals? The fence is the same thing as operating separately, isn't it? The only difference is that there might be a new unified contract that would bring East pilots up to West salaries. Not much in that for the West guys. If I were they, I would take #1 over #2 anyday.

Besides, the East pilots have shown that they have no backbone many times over. With over half of them slated to retire in the next 5 years, I'll bet that the older ones will sell out their younger "brothers" for a 15% raise. They always have in the past . . .

 

[USA320Pilot]

TechBoy,

Wrong. The benefits of creating permanent fences (which Northwest used with Republic for 20 years on widebodys) would be cross utilization, reserves could be used out of base to cover shortages, the company could fully integrate, other employee groups could get pay raises/joint contracts, profit sharing checks could go up, there would be no turmoil, ALPA could stay on the property, the toxic relationship would subside, and we could move on without turmoil.

O.k., if we do not have a permanent fence than how about a 25-year fence?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Charlie,

What is wrong with a permanent West and East coast fence, shared growth, and shared scope protection?

Nobody wants to see a fight and the solution I propose above would prevent a pilot war.

You have to ask what is wrong?

What is wrong is you are trying to weasle out of a legally binding agreement you made by holding everyone else hostage because you are not happy with the bed you made. You make me sick you are spineless.

 

[CactusFlyr]

I see all the east guys attempting to define "windfall", which is obviously very subjective depending upon which side you are on. How about the definition of "binding arbitration". Just curious to see the twisting of this.

 

[Piedmont1984]

TechBoy,

Wrong. The benefits of creating permanent fences (which Northwest used with Republic for 20 years on widebodys) would be cross utilization, reserves could be used out of base to cover shortages, the company could fully integrate, other employee groups could get pay raises/joint contracts, profit sharing checks could go up, there would be no turmoil, ALPA could stay on the property, the toxic relationship would subside, and we could move on without turmoil.

O.k., if we do not have a permanent fence than how about a 25-year fence?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

How about just a fence you could see from outer space, along with the Great Wall of China and the Himalayas.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

O.k., if we do not have a permanent fence than how about a 25-year fence?

Hey I got a novel idea how about standing by your word so you can look your children in their eyes and tell them you are an honorable man and that a person's word means something.

 

[TechBoy]

Wrong. The benefits of creating permanent fences (which Northwest used with Republic for 20 years on widebodys) would be cross utilization, reserves could be used out of base to cover shortages, the company could fully integrate, other employee groups could get pay raises/joint contracts, profit sharing checks could go up, there would be no turmoil, ALPA could stay on the property, the toxic relationship would subside, and we could move on without turmoil.

O.k., if we do not have a permanent fence than how about a 25-year fence?

Those are benefits to the company, not West pilots. What do they have to gain by throwing out a legally binding arbitration and giving you a long lasting fence? Nothing.

If East does not want to integrate, East does not have to. But the East pilots will have to keep their low BK payscale for a long, long time. Perhaps the majority of East pilots are willing to do that, but if I were a West pilot, I would bet that the senior East pilots will support integration if accompanied by a decent pay hike. So I would expect that the West pilots are willing to wait you out.

 

[Piedmont1984]

OK let's assume that you're right and I'm horribly wrong. How far are you prepared to go? All the way ala Eastern? Full Pay to the last day and all of that?

See I don't think you are that prepared as a group. If you were then you could force the Company and HP ALPA to negotiate with you.

While past performance is not a guarantee of future results, in this case I think it a fair indicator.

The difficulty in giving you an honest and accurate answer is this. I am prepared to take that first step, then, I am afraid, it becomes a slippery slope.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Charlie,

Your insults serve no useful purpose and only make the situation worse.

The AWA pilots have an option. Either agree to a negotiated settlement or have the US Airways pilots exercise their legal rights.

The path is clearly worse for the America West pilots than for the US Airways pilots if this is not resolved.

If you want to live under your current contract and Transition Agreement for years to come, enter into Section 6 negotiations, have no growth up the seniority list, have virtually no seniority list movement, see no widebody flying, no EMB-190 opportunities, face union representation imposition, and enormous operational and employee turmoil, which will financially hurt the company, then do not look for a solution to this problem.

Why? All the US Airways pilots have to do is nothing and we get all of the EMB-190 growth, virtually all of the attrition based career expectation pay/life style improvement, and maintain our seniority per the contracts.

Your choice: Seek a solution or live under the current contracts and seniority list for a very, very long time.

Do I want to see a pilot war? No, of course not, but do not underestimate the resolve of the East piltos, which is being lead by every MEC member!

Again, the ball is in the AWA's pilot's court and you have options.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[autofixer]

The more I think about it, this could easily be fixed. 5 to 7 year fence East and West. Split new flying 50/50. Negotiate a new and fair contract. Otherwise the alternative is bad.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Your propaganda is just that propaganda.

 

[TechBoy]

The AWA pilots have an option. Either agree to a negotiated settlement or have the US Airways pilots exercise their legal rights.

What "legal rights?" Clearly, you don't understand the concept of binding arbitration. Face it, there is no "legal" way out of this decision.

As for the rest of your "argument," wouldn't your fence idea do the exact same thing to the West pilots? You haven't answered that question.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The more I think about it, this could easly be fixed. 5 to 7 year fence East and West. Split new flying 50/50. Negotiate a new and fair contract. Otherwise the alternative is bad.

It may not have to be a fence. There are many, East and West, who would give up a great deal to commute to a base that is in the same time zone. Super seniority in your original base perhaps.

So would that be like a curtain?

 

[BoeingBoy]

If you want to live under your current contract and Transition Agreement for years to come, enter into Section 6 negotiations, have no growth up the seniority list, have virtually no seniority list movement, see no widebody flying, no EMB-190 opportunities, face union representation imposition, and enormous operational and employee turmoil, which will financially hurt the company, then do not look for a solution to this problem.

And the problem with listening to this "rational" solution is that those assumptions it's based on are flat out false or slanted to the best possible outcome for the East pilots....

Listen to someone who would throw anyone under the bus for a seniority number at your own risk.

Jim