Lcc In Phl-clarification

Aug 20, 2002
A good friend, with a very lofty position with one of the majors(not AA) told me that WN, was to a certain degree, put in a position that they needed to get into Phl, Before any OTHER LCC did.

Also, PHL was #1 O+D market in the nation.

How "close" was my source ????

(My questions/opinions)

Looking between MHT and DCA, the ONLY city/route WN would,nt/could'nt fly, would be PHL/BOS, and PHL-LGA(if in fact U fly's mainline there)
(Pwm just went express)

If WN "open up with"
then I think the "handwrithing's, on the wall".

And I repeat, I'm no "lover of luv". I've got family at U.

Your thoughts,

Please do not start a new thread that is directed at a member. Sending a PM is fine. I will open the thread again if anyone cares to comment.

New Hamshire wrote: That PHL is #1 in the Nation in O/D traffic/market, and implies that when LUV comes in and flies out of PHL in certain markets that U has, that it may be "curtains for U".

PITbull comments:

You cite that PHL is #1 in O/D market in the Nation. Obviously, with all that business, PHL has some really #1 unique problems. I hear from the Customer service Res. agents that many, many pax say, I would like to go to point B, but PLEASE do not put me through PHL.

So, If U can't turn a dime as an airline, and being that PHL is OUR #1 HUB and city, then I can only imagine the "pain in the ass" it will be for any pax to fly out of PHL even on LUV without experiencing major traffic delays. ON TIME???? I don't think so. ATC doesn't give special treatment to anyone on the runway. LOL.... :lol: "Get in line" and bring your video games.
LUV wants to bring in...what? an additional 40 more domestic flights out of PHL by next May..... Hope they are planning on running those flights after midnight.
This just to set the record straight regarding a bit of misinformation contained in a closed thread, but still readable by all.

SWA will not be the first LCC in PHL. AirTran has been there for quite a while, but USAirways management didn't seem very phased at all by their arrival.
PITBull -

Don't laugh too hard. SWA has managed to rise above every obstacle that the traditional carriers have said would keep them out of their markets. They will do well in PHL, make no mistake about that.

As far as delays, as long as they carefully plan their schedules around the USAirways complexes, they will get in and out of PHL with little delay. Every USAirways pilot has experienced those "sweet spots" when you are first out, or arrive after the crowd. PHL can be a dream if you time it right. And believe me, SWA will do their homework and time it right.

And the air traffic controllers giving priority? It doesn't officially happen, but it really seems to happen very often. At holiday times, cases of adult beverages magically appear at ATC facilities that work SWA to keep the skids greased. Of course, holiday cheer courtesy of SWA certainly does not influence an ATC decision when it comes to a toss-up tie-breaker, does it?

You need to keep on driving your bus. Make no mistake about ATC delays that effect every carrier in PHL. No one has the "IN" on that baby. Can't wait to see how the snow season effects LUV as well. THEY ONLY KICKED OUR BUTTS IN BWI, BECAUSE U WAS ASLEEP AT THE HELM. All U cared about back then was a United merger.

No. I do not believe LUV will be "special" in PHL. Traffic is traffic, ever heard of: "we are now 27 for take off" sigh, yawn.....

I am now laughing at you. U has flights going out of PHL every 5 minutes. I would like to see LUV work around that miracle. I guess God must be flying LUV's planes LOL.... Like I said, LUV will have to plan their departures and returns in the middle of the night.

Get ready for LUV to get their ### kicked.
NewHampshire Black Bears:

I'm not sure if PHL is number 1 in O&D traffic, however, it would be in the top tier of O&D airports. The city is located in the fourth largest metropolitan area in the country with over 4 million people living in the city and surrounding areas.

Nycbusdriver, is correct about AirTran and the Orlando based company has been building its PHL operation.

Pitbull is also right about the ATC problem, for any carrier who operates out of this airport. It will not matter much if WN operates from the E Concourse or not because taxi clearance is first come, first serve.

I believe US Airways is going to vigorously defend PHL and there is going to be a major focus in this market. This week the Vice President of Flight Operations, Senior Director of Flight Operations, the PHL Chief Pilot, and other managers spent five days in the Ramp Tower, Concourses, and the Ramp monitoring the operation and I expect upcoming changes.

From a marketing perspective, I suspect this airport will be a major EMB-170 market and these jets will go head-to-head with WN.

Finally, there is reason to believe Markmywords thoughts on a "rolling hub" will be implemented except for the NA Track international bank. The rolling hub seems to be working for AA and Siegel implemented a modified plan at EWR when he was in charge of Scheduling & Planning at CO.


PHL is US Airway's number 1 city in terms of O&D. It is probably not the #1 in the nation. My bets would be on ATL. Most other major cites have more than 1 airport (NYC, CHI, WAS, LA, SF, MIA, Dallas, Houston, Tampa/St. Pete).

With regards to SW HAVING to come to PHL before any other LCC, I firmly believe that they saw how well AirTran was doing, and decided to act before they got big here. AirTran has carved a nice niche for themselves here and at BWI, going head to head with SW on many Florida markets, as well as markets with no other current service. If Air Tran keeps on their current growth track at PHL, they will be #2 before long.

Also, even though the Inquirer wrote that SW would have 40 flights at startup, they are only going to have 14. The 40 number came from an estimated 10 aircraft movements per each of their 4 gates per day.
I predict that U's response to the LUV startup will be to instruct dispatch and ramp ops at PHL to ensure that taxi clearances are requested exactly 30 seconds before each LUV fliths departs.

Can't beat 'em? AA them (see the Braniff fun with sabre and whatnot).

The funny thing is this: turnabout is fair play on such things and LUV has money to burn. U does not.
For what it's worth, PHL was #19 of the top 50 domestic airports in terms of total passenger enplanements in 2002. If you look at cities instead of airports, the ranking would stay about the same - for example, combining the three greater NY airports into one city would move PHL up to #17, but combining the DC area airports and Miami area airports would move it back to #19.

To give some perspective on the traffic these 50 airports handle, they account for over 80% of total domestic passenger enplanements.

Obviously, total enplanements and origin-destination traffic are two different things, so PHL could rank differently in a O-D ranking, but I don't think it would be 1st. Las Vegas has 50% more enplanements than PHL, while Orlando has 20% more. I would suspect that the percentage of O-D traffic at these two airports is considerably higher than at PHL.

By the way, this info comes from the National Transportation Statistics report for 2002, published by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (part of the Dept of Transportation).

I find it interesting that you expect the EMB-170 family of aircraft to be the savior of CLT. As I believe that the first crew is not qualified on that airplane and I am not sure that it is even certified yet. It would have been much more advantagous for the you big boys to have negotiated to put the 705's at the wholly owneds rather than allow the 700's to to to MESA. CCY can't control the contract carriers like they can the whooly owned.

Hoping we all survive
PHL is not a gridlocked traffic jam all day. When USAir doesn't have 30 flights scheduled to go out in 10 minutes, PHL is calm and uneventful. What Nycbusdrvr said is true. It's good to be last some times.

Latest posts