Lets Roll

[35 Yrs and Counting]

Maybe I should go by the name Taylor2 but for months I have been reading the posts on this forum and it certainly is apparent that there is a lot of hate for Management and U in general. I am part of the rank and clearly past Officers have blundered, the Three Stooges screwed us, and the board of Directors from the past share in the responsibly for our plight. For many years the Board of Directors treated the employees better than the stockholders. That is not how a company is typically run but the “Hell U makes money in spite of itself, give em what they want and be done with it…We got the Northeast sewed upâ€￾ attitude got us here. Nobody wanted to fact it but it finally came to a head. This is not a Brick and Mortar company. There is tremendous overhead in running an airline and it all finally came to a head.

A lot of readers on this forum would be surprised at how little we pay a lot of our Management in comparison to other companies. We complain when we hear of the Management Incentive plan that maybe pays some of them a little bonus so that at the end of the year they can go to Best Buy and buy a wide screen TV. Additionally after that bonus they are still underpaid by corporate America’s standards. Yes there are some higher bonuses but not that many.

I wonder how many on this forum have been in a 8th floor meeting with Gangwold or have first hand knowledge of how he treated VPs, Directors and Managers. It would appall you but you would begin to understand why they were ineffective at times. The new Management team is quite different and there will be more changes. Maybe we need to give them a try because it’s this team or no team at this juncture. I write to them at the various levels without attacking then and get polite succinct and informative answers and I do not go outside of normal protocol when doing it. And I leave Mr. Siegel alone to turn this ship around. He doesn’t have time to play trivia games right now.

It’s time to put the past behind or keep it to yourself and not spoil it for the rest of us.


I have also duly recorded answers from two of you to save you the trouble.

“BARF!â€￾ And “Ditto!â€￾

 

[repeet]

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On 3/19/2003 2:43:11 PM 35 Yrs and Counting wrote:


I have also duly recorded answers from two of you to save you the trouble.

“BARF!” And “Ditto!”


----------------​

I think he meant to say Barf! and Dutta!

 

[mlt]

35 Years,
You state in your post that the organization was ineffective due to the manner in which the upper echelon treated the corporate workforce (paraphrasing). Having said that, don''t you find it odd that the new management team appears to blame all of U''s faults on the lower employees (legacy employee costs..if we just had jetblue wages)? While the previous team were notorious for the ''Monday Morning Massacre Meetings'', the current team''s treatment of labor may be similarly viewed by the labor groups.

I will agree with you on mgm''t compensation in comparison to corporate America. However, I also believe prior to accepting these jobs the upper team had an opportunity to be well versed and had the ability to decline the position. Additionally, if they successfully steer this corporation through bankruptcy they will secure their futures. Don''t forget they worked 1 year, albeit a very difficult year, they are being rewarded with stock that is projected in the 55 million dollar range. So, in the words of Evita, "Don''t cry for me".

The point of this post is that in any relationship both sides have to give and to date it appears that only labor has given longterm. If you expect the team concept to reappear, it might be a good idea for the boss to stop the caustic e-mails.

 

[Seatacus]

35 years,
And your point is...
Are you bragging or complaining, I don't get it

 

[mlt]

35 Years,
I remember reading an article about the ''blame game''. When it is time to find fault... if another is at fault the cause of blame is based on the individual''s character. However, if oneself is at fault the cause of blame is circumstance. The point of this, perhaps all parties should look in the mirror and stop blaming each other.

 

[35 Yrs and Counting]

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On 3/19/2003 6:12:03 PM Seatacus wrote:

35 years,
And your point is...
Are you bragging or complaining, I don''t get it

----------------​

My point is that there are too many complainers blaming U and present Management in general for something that was coming for a long time. The Board for too many years screwed up and most recently The Three Stooges screwed it up. They are all gone now and its time to put it behind and move on but there are some bitter people here that need to change their attitudes and move on or move out. Everytime someone has something positive to say or just mentions something in the news that gets posted here the "Negative Spin Doctors" of this forum have to twist it around. Its time now to come out of bankruptcy and work together to rebuild this airline.

 

[35 Yrs and Counting]

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On 3/19/2003 4:39:22 PM mlt wrote:

35 Years,
You state in your post that the organization was ineffective due to the manner in which the upper echelon treated the corporate workforce (paraphrasing). Having said that, don''t you find it odd that the new management team appears to blame all of U''s faults on the lower employees (legacy employee costs..if we just had jetblue wages)? While the previous team were notorious for the ''Monday Morning Massacre Meetings'', the current team''s treatment of labor may be similarly viewed by the labor groups.

I will agree with you on mgm''t compensation in comparison to corporate America. However, I also believe prior to accepting these jobs the upper team had an opportunity to be well versed and had the ability to decline the position. Additionally, if they successfully steer this corporation through bankruptcy they will secure their futures. Don''t forget they worked 1 year, albeit a very difficult year, they are being rewarded with stock that is projected in the 55 million dollar range. So, in the words of Evita, "Don''t cry for me".

The point of this post is that in any relationship both sides have to give and to date it appears that only labor has given longterm. If you expect the team concept to reappear, it might be a good idea for the boss to stop the caustic e-mails.

----------------​

Personally I find the E-mails from the Boss to be straight and to the point and not caustic. Most employees just don''t want to hear the truth. This is a high cost type of business and the problem is that we can not compete if our seat cost per mile is considerably higher than other carriers.

What I stated was this was twofold. First this was a long time comming and nobody wanted to listen and now somehow it is present managements fault. Secondly there are a lot of bitter people here that don''t want to try to be part of the solution but want to continue to be part of the problem.

 

[PITbull]

Sorry 35,

But 35 must mean your age, and say Hi to everyone on the 8th floor.

You are "clueless" to what the "rank and file" will have to endure in the forwarding years, financially, regardless of the profits this company makes. For many, the profit sharing means diddly squat as a return in comparison to the lost wages and benefits, and what's ahead with the 5% wage cut pending and additonal increases in medical going forward. Plus the penalties in pay just for calling in sick.

Don't talk about defending mangement and their bonuses; talk about defending the corporation and making us successful, which includes ALL the employees of a company; not just this new mangement.

And management does not write out to the "rank and file" anymore as they now have everything they wanted from us.

Have empathy for the "rank and file" plight, and build their spirits if you truly mean "let's roll". Or were you sent to lecture us on our attitudes?

 

[drifterreno]

Yes, it was a long time coming however--we sat here and watched WN gain momentium and take over the airways. We didn''t get it because we didn''t look at one thing. WN flies the same type plane everywhere. 737''s They only need one type of part for every plane--not some for 757''s 767''s a320''s etc.
If they had been smart they would have taken heed and done the same thing from the beginning--when we all saw what was happening. That in itself would have saved mucho money in the beginning---

 

[2cents]

35 yrs,
I''ve been reading and rereading your post. I can''t find whats got some folks so upset?
If it makes you feel better their replies help prove your overall point.

 

[35 Yrs and Counting]

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On 3/19/2003 10:36:33 PM PineyBob wrote:

Hey PIT,
Notice how 35 Years just sailed right past my post. Perhaps to close to home for his comfort zone. Or is because I am a PAX and only worth noticing when my credit card doesn''t clear? PIT you and I both know that when CCY is concerned the only debate is whether PAX or union workers are held in more contempt. Exhibit A is B. Ben Baldanza and his comments about PAX. I''m sure you have your stories to share as well.

So Mr. 35 Years,
I would submit to you that if want to see why there is so much rancor in the rank & file and why PAX like me start a group called the Cockroaches that you sir, position yourself in front of a mirror and you will see one of the reasons some of us have an axe to grind. You''ll see why someone like me would be offended by Steve Rice''s comment to me about "being an industry of fine print" because I took him to task on a Club issue. Perhaps you could give me a compelling business reason to continue to fly US given the arrogant customer be damned attitude of B. Ben Baldanza and Steve Rice. I''d love to hear it!

In case you''re wondering why I do continue to fly US it is because of people like PIT, and the other everyday workers who know EXACTLY where they''re paycheck comes from. It ultimately comes from the PAX. They realize this and treat me like a customer should be treated! A stark contrast to Steve Rice and Ben Baldanza and judging from your post you as well.

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I did not intentionally sail past your post. I had a few minutes to respond to the other two posts that were on my screen and yours was not on my screen at the time and then I shutdown and started watching the first strike in Baghdad. None of my words were, or ever will be directed at any of U’s customers. You sign my paycheck sir.

As to your remark about SEAL teams and Unions, I am actually very familiar with both and actually have seen some real parallels at various times in my 35 years. Yes I do have some stories but I elect not to mention any of them because as a union member I did not come to attack the unions and cause more bickering between the different groups that post here. Additionally airing some of this “Dirty Laundry†here would even incite you. I just find it ironic that the unions and the rest of the rank and file constantly say the Company is lying to us and then for example ALPA just recently realized their actuaries and accountants came up with virtually the same figures about the pilot retirement plan. The union leadership has their job to do and when they do it well I personally profit from it.

You even agreed with my point about Management’s wages. Many are below standard and many of them have given up, or more appropriately benefits and wages have been taken from them to a greater extent than you realize.

Personally I am hurting as much and in many cases more than a lot of employees here because my spouse and I both work for U. I fully understand the ALPA plight. I am 57 and would not be able to retire in 3 years so I am lucky to be able to work until they take me out in the pine box. And I don’t forget the employees that are so low in the food chain that they do not post here because they no longer can afford an Internet provider.

The whole point of my post was that we have some employees here that don’t want to get onboard and move on. After rereading my original post the only thing I would have changed would be the subtle Taylor2 remark and the BARF, DITTO comments. It was in reference to the Taylor01 post, “A challenge to U’s Employeesâ€. The BARF and DITTO comments were actually humorous but indicative of their attitude toward Taylor01 or anyone else that has anything positive to say. In retrospect I’m glad I left it that way because PITTbull did pick up on it as evidenced by his/her lovely post.

I appreciate your continuing to choose U for your travel needs. The ultimate success or demise of U affects the traveling public in many ways. You can live in a large city and choose one of many LCC’s to various destinations or if you live in a small city U might serve your needs better due to the Hub and Spoke type of operation. I hope we continue to be here for you.

Thank you for the compliment. I will try to live up to that Christian Republican moral and ethical standard.

P.S. I find it interesting that the positive comments about my post are directed to my E-mail. There are several and they are from the rank and file.

 

[35 Yrs and Counting]

35 Years,
I remember reading an article about the 'blame game'. When it is time to find fault... if another is at fault the cause of blame is based on the individual's character. However, if oneself is at fault the cause of blame is circumstance. The point of this, perhaps all parties should look in the mirror and stop blaming each other.



MLT

Thanks. It's kind of like the saying, There is no worse problem than one you have to blame on yourself.

 

[35 Yrs and Counting]

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On 3/19/2003 9:44:53 PM drifterreno wrote:

Yes, it was a long time coming however--we sat here and watched WN gain momentium and take over the airways. We didn''t get it because we didn''t look at one thing. WN flies the same type plane everywhere. 737''s They only need one type of part for every plane--not some for 757''s 767''s a320''s etc.
If they had been smart they would have taken heed and done the same thing from the beginning--when we all saw what was happening. That in itself would have saved mucho money in the beginning---

----------------​

Yes and that was one thing that Rakesh at least started to do by rationalizing the fleet with the Airbus, and this was very hard to say because I have no love for him at all. It was however too little too late.

 

[35 Yrs and Counting]

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On 3/19/2003 931 PM PITbull wrote:

Sorry 35,

But 35 must mean your age, and say Hi to everyone on the 8th floor.

You are "clueless" to what the "rank and file" will have to endure in the forwarding years, financially, regardless of the profits this company makes. For many, the profit sharing means diddly squat as a return in comparison to the lost wages and benefits, and what''s ahead with the 5% wage cut pending and additonal increases in medical going forward. Plus the penalties in pay just for calling in sick.

Don''t talk about defending mangement and their bonuses; talk about defending the corporation and making us successful, which includes ALL the employees of a company; not just this new mangement.

And management does not write out to the "rank and file" anymore as they now have everything they wanted from us.

Have empathy for the "rank and file" plight, and build their spirits if you truly mean "let''s roll". Or were you sent to lecture us on our attitudes?



----------------​

Read my post to PineyBob. I wasn''t sent here and I don’t like your baseless attacks and accusations or being in the position I''m in but it''s time to move on. However I like your post because it shows what you are made of. Have a nice day.

 

[delldude]

i''m at a loss