This topic title says it all because we all see the same old talking union heads saying how management is out to screw them. As we all know there is a real possibility of this airline is going away. To some on here that doesn’t matter as long as they win, but win what? The employees, all of them no longer have a say in what happens, it’s way beyond that point. The hardliners are also hard headed to their own detriment. I was talking to a fellow mechanic at work yesterday and he told me he would take a $10 to $12 an hour pay cut knowing what his options are on the outside. He has a mortgage and three young children and 16 years seniority that he doesn’t want to lose. It seems that not only does the ALPA leadership have it wrong but so does the mighty IAM who has a poor history of winning this kind of battle looking back to Eastern and Caterpillar just to name two. It’s a damn shame there are union leaders who have more ego than common sense that will probably impact a lot of lives. It’s obvious to all but the so called leaders that cuts are coming fast, hard and many, but to just say no and not even let the membership vote the way ALPA did is no different than some of management’s worse shenanigans ever pulled! Big egos in both management and labor, labor especially will bring this airline to it’s final descend. Like someone wrote on here: What’s done is done, water under the bridge, and the only choice is to move forward because that is the only option no matter who in the hell’s fault it is. I predict there will be a lot of finger pointing when it’s all said and done, my finger won’t be pointing at the unions but my entire body mind and soul will be focused on them. I will avoid unions from this point forward in my remaining working career because I have yet to have success story number one working in any union environment. I have been around for some time to know the realities of union versus nonunion work places, you can have them and there so called leaders who are worse than management can ever be. I can name IAM leaders who are nothing more than yes men and are paid by the union, good pay by the way, because they can’t do anything else except kiss the union bosses hindend and massage their egos. It’s sickening, it really is! At least with non union you are paid according to your skill and not the rear you kiss, skill means nothing in a union only the scared seniority which is now being targeted and I can understand why. I wasn’t born with a union card in my hand and I sure as hell won’t be holding one in my casket. For the record I am a union paying member because it’s mandatory to work at U as a mechanic unless you freely choose to be shunned by not being one of the union drones that gave up their personal sovereignty. Do I hate unions, no I don’t, but they are not what they were and in fact have become corporate America’s favorite target and guess what? Corporate America is winning and I don’t like being on the losing team.
When Will Reality Be Accepted?
- Thread starter cavalier
- Start date
Also, Cav...tell me have I lost my mind, or have I read on hear recently that you are NO longer a U employee???? Accordingly to what you have just posted, I would say you are still U employee. I need to do some research on previous post to make sure. 
h34r: h34r: h34r:
h34r: h34r: h34r:
PITbull
Veteran
Wow Cav,...
Wasn't it you who was saying you would never concede to giving mangament more concessions?
Wasn't it you that said on these very boards the the "concession stand is closed and would stay closed".
Changing your mind again? What day is it? Hmmm... B) Seems like you maybe having a problem with some union leader....you don't like. Gee, wonder why?
Wasn't it you who was saying you would never concede to giving mangament more concessions?
Wasn't it you that said on these very boards the the "concession stand is closed and would stay closed".
Changing your mind again? What day is it? Hmmm... B) Seems like you maybe having a problem with some union leader....you don't like. Gee, wonder why?
Cav,
The second I hear our union leaders talking about "winning", I know that they have lost the ability to represent us...it should be about representing the membership. That means doing was is right for the membership, even when it is a tough thing to do.
In ALPA, the MEC that sat during Restructuring 1 & 2 were NOT cowards, they had a bad situation, tough choices, and we are here today becuase of what they did...these clowns now are cowards, afraid to do what is best.
It is a sad day indeed....
The second I hear our union leaders talking about "winning", I know that they have lost the ability to represent us...it should be about representing the membership. That means doing was is right for the membership, even when it is a tough thing to do.
In ALPA, the MEC that sat during Restructuring 1 & 2 were NOT cowards, they had a bad situation, tough choices, and we are here today becuase of what they did...these clowns now are cowards, afraid to do what is best.
It is a sad day indeed....
cavalier said:
I don't know where you live but explain to me how you can make a house payment and raise a family on $10-12/hr.
At the airline that I work at the ass-kissers are the ones that get promoted in management[non-union],not the best qualified.
I watched a manager in my airline get passed over many times for promotions because he was not an ass-kisser and he was one of the most knowledgeable people of the overall airline operation that I ever worked for.
Things are not always as they appear on the other side of the fence.
At the airline that I work at the ass-kissers are the ones that get promoted in management[non-union],not the best qualified.
I watched a manager in my airline get passed over many times for promotions because he was not an ass-kisser and he was one of the most knowledgeable people of the overall airline operation that I ever worked for.
Things are not always as they appear on the other side of the fence.
goingboeing said:
In reply to your 4 paragraphs:
1) you cant!
2) its alive and well at my airline also, operations management folks noses up others butts
3)I too have seen the best and brightest, most people oriented passed over for the butt kissers
4)Corporate communications, ie, the rose color glasses people, make everything look nice nice as the straightened deck chairs of the Titanic sink.
DENVER, CO
I feel it is wrong to reduce this to those terms. We all have personal choice to make as to how much reduction in compensation is tolerable.
Some are willing to get on their knees and accept anything, others are willing to risk an uncertain future.
Cav & UseYourHead:
You’re right and I believe the majority of the employees agree with your comments. Furthermore, it’s better to have a job while looking for a job than no job and benefits.
This week the company will file an emergency motion under S.1113(e) of the bankruptcy code seeking immediate relief on cash flow items, e.g. pay, retirement payments, etc. that I believe will be granted by the court. This will immediately drop our unit costs.
Then the company will file S.1113/S.1114 motions and the parties will be given a period to reach an agreement. If the parties do not reach an agreement then I believe the unions should put out the company’s last proposal for membership vote and let the democratic process work. If there is no agreement, then the judge can order contract changes and the unions only response could be “self helpâ€.
I doubt any union could exercise self help and if the IAM-M did, we could see another Tampa with a lock out. Then who wins. The company uses people who cross the picket line, replacement workers, and outsourcing. The easy part is closing heavy maintenance like in Tampa and there are not that many line maintenance stations that could not be staffed during a work stoppage.
Do I like this? No, of course not, but it’s the reality of the marketplace.
Instead of fighting change I believe it is better to cut the best deal possible, let the employees who want to work at the company continue to do so, and for those who find the changes unacceptable, they can move on to anotherpositions.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
You’re right and I believe the majority of the employees agree with your comments. Furthermore, it’s better to have a job while looking for a job than no job and benefits.
This week the company will file an emergency motion under S.1113(e) of the bankruptcy code seeking immediate relief on cash flow items, e.g. pay, retirement payments, etc. that I believe will be granted by the court. This will immediately drop our unit costs.
Then the company will file S.1113/S.1114 motions and the parties will be given a period to reach an agreement. If the parties do not reach an agreement then I believe the unions should put out the company’s last proposal for membership vote and let the democratic process work. If there is no agreement, then the judge can order contract changes and the unions only response could be “self helpâ€.
I doubt any union could exercise self help and if the IAM-M did, we could see another Tampa with a lock out. Then who wins. The company uses people who cross the picket line, replacement workers, and outsourcing. The easy part is closing heavy maintenance like in Tampa and there are not that many line maintenance stations that could not be staffed during a work stoppage.
Do I like this? No, of course not, but it’s the reality of the marketplace.
Instead of fighting change I believe it is better to cut the best deal possible, let the employees who want to work at the company continue to do so, and for those who find the changes unacceptable, they can move on to anotherpositions.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
First of all Tampa was not heavy maintenance it was a check hangar.
Second of all you just cant hire replacement workers, they have to undergo a background check which can take up to three months. And everyone will be drug tested also.
Third they all have to be trained which can take several weeks.
Fourth the FAA has announced it has put US Airways as a distressed carrier which means they will be increasing survailance in US Airways maintenance and flight programs.
Fifth 10 out of the 13 airplanes the ST MAE did have had maintenance problems and the FAA is now investigating.
There are 18 maintenance stations and every single US Airways airplane must be seen by maintenance everyday in order to be legal to fly. And at the 18 stations on the RON A/C major work goes on everynight. Which you cant have a vendor due unless they have been through several weeks or more of training.
I see once again your lack of knowledge of the maintenance programs shines the sun.
Second of all you just cant hire replacement workers, they have to undergo a background check which can take up to three months. And everyone will be drug tested also.
Third they all have to be trained which can take several weeks.
Fourth the FAA has announced it has put US Airways as a distressed carrier which means they will be increasing survailance in US Airways maintenance and flight programs.
Fifth 10 out of the 13 airplanes the ST MAE did have had maintenance problems and the FAA is now investigating.
There are 18 maintenance stations and every single US Airways airplane must be seen by maintenance everyday in order to be legal to fly. And at the 18 stations on the RON A/C major work goes on everynight. Which you cant have a vendor due unless they have been through several weeks or more of training.
I see once again your lack of knowledge of the maintenance programs shines the sun.
USA320, by your post above, does that mean if the emergency 1113e is granted by the judge, the company can pick any arbitrary wage they see fit and I have to work for that wage without recourse?
Seatacus
Veteran
cavalier said:
Is this because you've realized that a union is a business whose main focus is on their own bottom line.
AC/CF said:
I don't think that a judge is likely to see a target of HP's unit labor costs as arbitrary when presented with a business plan. Are U's current rates less arbitrary once the company admits failure by entering bankruptcy? I think the company will be able to demonstrate that the current labor rates have no relation to the reality of the marketplace. So, what is more appropriate?
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