Look out AA, the unions are mad!

[eolesen]

Anyone else notice the increase in pro-CompAAny newbies on this board since "Hopeful" made the newspaper a few weeks back about the bonuses.

I guess that would now bring the total of participants who aren't union members or airline employees to about five or six, vs. the 200+ who are union members or union supporters....

Of course, there used to be a lot more non-union posters, but many of them either found other jobs outside the airlines, or just lost interest because of the lack of variety in the discussions, since they historically settle into one of four basic topics:

• TWA vs. AA Seniority
• TWU Infighting
• My paycut was bigger than your paycut
• My workgroup is more important than your workgroup

Sure, there are some nice deviations from that, such as discussing schedules, aircraft, and service, but those type of topics seem to be rare lately...

 

[B.O.B.]

I guess that would now bring the total of participants who aren't union members or airline employees to about five or six, vs. the 200+ who are union members or union supporters....

Of course, there used to be a lot more non-union posters, but many of them either found other jobs outside the airlines, or just lost interest because of the lack of variety in the discussions, since they historically settle into one of four basic topics:

• TWA vs. AA Seniority
• TWU Infighting
• My paycut was bigger than your paycut
• My workgroup is more important than your workgroup

Did you expect anything more? All airline employees have gotten the shaft over the past 5 years and we are all tired of it.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Sure, there are some nice deviations from that, such as discussing schedules, aircraft, and service, but those type of topics seem to be rare lately...

Okay...back to the DFW-PVD route cancellation.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Well Mr.Former Moderator. Since your the only management type available at the moment, I'll ask you! Who was it that originally leaked the story of the bonus to the media? It seems to me that maybe Arpy may be playing games and letting the Unions due for him what he don't have the "wavos" to due for himself! That is find a way out of this, save the company a lot of money, and blame the Unions for killing the whole thing!!!---- Na! He couldn't be "that" slick!!!??? Or could he????

 

[Bob Owens]

They did take pay cuts...each work group had their own deals. They also did without any raises or bonuses 2 years prior to when unions were asked for concessions.
Here's the correct breakdown of pay cuts in 2003 for management/non management/non union employees:

First $30,000 = 4%
Second $30,000 = 7%
Third $30,000 = 10%
Over $90,000 = 13.5%
Carty = 33% pay cut plus declined any bonus previous 2 years
Officers = 17%

Using your own example: Your supervisor making $70,000 per year was cut by 11% on the first $60,000 possibly 10% or less on the remaining $10,000. I'm not sure how you came up with 8.5%/$6,000 without the correct percentages.

You need to do a little more Research, Researcher. You forget that during the 1995-2001 period TWU members effectively took a 12% paycut. Their pay was frozen for six years, years of record profits. The executives where still getting their raises and bonuses though.

By the way 4% on the first 30k and 7% on the next 30K does not equal 11% total, you average the figures, you dont add them,so the real number is between 4 and 7, but I'm sure you knew that and were just trying to decieve, now you know why we are distrustful of management, even those who just claim to support them are liars.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Did you expect anything more? All airline employees have gotten the shaft over the past 5 years and we are all tired of it.

I would say the last 15 years plus or minus 5 more :down:

 

[Oneflyer]

Well Mr.Former Moderator. Since your the only management type available at the moment, I'll ask you! Who was it that originally leaked the story of the bonus to the media? It seems to me that maybe Arpy may be playing games and letting the Unions due for him what he don't have the "wavos" to due for himself! That is find a way out of this, save the company a lot of money, and blame the Unions for killing the whole thing!!!---- Na! He couldn't be "that" slick!!!??? Or could he????

Both bonuses, the current ones and the 2003 bonuses both had to be reported to due to SEC rules.

 

[Hopeful]

The bottom line is this. This bonus package is based on the performance of the stock. NOT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE COMPANY!

What kind of crap is that? Company still can't turn a profit, has over $21 billion in debt AND THEY GET BONUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you pro management types dont see the problem with this, then you are both your deaf and blind. AMR MANIPULATED THIS STOCK SO THAT IT REACHED NEW HIGHS POST 9-11. AND AFTER THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY, THEY ANNOUNCE THE BONUS PACKAGE.


HOW GODDAMN CONVENIENT!

Do you know why they pulled this one off?

BECAUSE THEY WOULD GET JACK SQUAT IF THEY GOT BONUSES BASED ON COMPANY PERFORMANCE!

 

[MCI transplant]

Both bonuses, the current ones and the 2003 bonuses both had to be reported to due to SEC rules.

<_< So are you saying the media picked it up from the SEC report?

 

[Oneflyer]

The bottom line is this. This bonus package is based on the performance of the stock. NOT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE COMPANY!

What kind of crap is that? Company still can't turn a profit, has over $21 billion in debt AND THEY GET BONUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you pro management types dont see the problem with this, then you are both your deaf and blind. AMR MANIPULATED THIS STOCK SO THAT IT REACHED NEW HIGHS POST 9-11. AND AFTER THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY, THEY ANNOUNCE THE BONUS PACKAGE.


HOW GODDAMN CONVENIENT!

Do you know why they pulled this one off?

BECAUSE THEY WOULD GET JACK SQUAT IF THEY GOT BONUSES BASED ON COMPANY PERFORMANCE!

I guess they don't teach finance in AMT training classes?

To the owners of the company aka the shareholders, company performance = the performance of the stock.

If the stock continues to appreciate, the shareholders really don't care if the company make money or not.

 

[eolesen]

As flawed of a measure as it is, stock price -is- a reflection of future performance relative to the peer group. There's little dispute about the fact that AMR is still seen as more likely to post higher profits in 2006 than the other stocks in the peer group.

Quite honestly, the way DAL and NWAC were performing pre-bankruptcy, the AMR would still have been outperforming the peer group even if those carriers hadn't filed Ch.11.

WN has been a flat performing stock for many years now, mainly because it's oversubscribed, and also because while people expect them to remain as profitable as they are today, they're not expected to have double-digit earnings growth going forward.

Even if JBLU and AAI were in the peer group, I suspect AMR would have performed better, since they're also not expected to continue double-digit earnings growth.
The only two legal ways to manipulate stock prices are to 1) buy back stock or 2) show progress and the potential for future earnings growth above what it currently is.


Those who believe that the stock price was deliberatly manipulated need to go put on your tin foil hats and look out the window for the black helicopters that are circling your house...

So are you saying the media picked it up from the SEC report?

Perhaps, but they're more likely to have read it in EagleEye, which is the guidance email that Investor Relations provides to both the media and the investment community whenever there's a SEC filing or major announcement which may have have forward-looking implications for financials.

 

[AMFAMAN]

If the stock continues to appreciate, the shareholders really don't care if the company make money or not.

And considering some of the large shareholders are the same people as those receiving the bonuses, your point is very valid. :down: :down:

Which leads me to my next point, I recall a backwards priority presentation by former-vp Dave Kruse in 1999 where the shareholders are on top, next the customers, and finally the employees. I have seen the same type of chart from SWA and the employees are on top, followed by the customers, and finally the shareholders. I guess some things never change, including SWA's profitability.

 

[local 12 proud]

I recall a backwards priority presentation by former-vp Dave Kruse in 1999 where the shareholders are on top, next the customers, and finally the employees. I have seen the same type of chart from SWA and the employees are on top, followed by the customers, and finally the shareholders. I guess some things never change, including SWA's profitability.

...Well some people get it right!

We embarked on consciously building Virgin into a brand which stood for quality, value, fun and a sense of challenge. We also developed these ideas in the belief that our first priority should be the people who work for the companies, then the customers, then the shareholders. Because if the staff are motivated then the customers will be happy, and the shareholders will then benefit through the company's success.
Richard Branson

 

[local 12 proud]

I guess they don't teach finance in AMT training classes?

...I guess they don't teach ethics or people skills at Harvard either!

 

[Hopeful]

I guess they don't teach finance in AMT training classes?

To the owners of the company aka the shareholders, company performance = the performance of the stock.

If the stock continues to appreciate, the shareholders really don't care if the company make money or not.

So us lowly AMT's will never see an increase in pay and benefits if the stock does well and the company does crap?

BUT THE EXECUTIVES WILL!

WOW! I CAN SEE WHY THE WHARTON SCHOOL OF BUSINESS COSTS SO MUCH TO GET THAT PRIZED MBA WITH THIS PHILOSOPHY!

So you mentioned the shareholders, aka the owners, don't care if the company profits or not!
Maybe they'll give a #### when the lowly AMT who never learned finance screws up on the aircraft that their greedy lazy asses are flying on because that AMT has to work two jobs and he was too tired to properly perform maintenace and causes that aircraft to crash. Then those fine shareholders can use the money made off their stock to sue the company for negligence.



ONEFLYER, SINCE YOU HAVE BELITTLED THE AMT, MAY I INQUIRE WHAT FIELD YOU ARE IN?

IT IS BECAUSE OF PRO MANAGEMENT DESK JOB PENCIL PUSHERS LIKE YOU WHO ALL THINK THEY CAN ADVANCE IN THE COMPANY BY SCREWING THEIR COWORKERS IS THE VERY REASON UNIONS WERE FORMED DECADES AGO.