M&E reductions announced

[mike757]

A base is closing!!! AFW and MCIE most likely both! AFW won't bend over and take it, so RUMOR has it that if AFW doesn't "work together" then their will be no AFW! 4/10's are going away! Mgmt states that 5/8 and 4/10 do not mix together! Well if they thought morale was bad before what do they think they are going to get now!

The Ramano mobster gang gets what they want and they have Steve L. in their pocket so get ready everyone, concessions and a base closure!

According to the latest info, MCI will be a two bay operation by the end of the year, with <200 amts. personally, I think we should shut it down now. F_ _ K em! :angry:

 

[Hopeful]

A base is closing!!! AFW and MCIE most likely both! AFW won't bend over and take it, so RUMOR has it that if AFW doesn't "work together" then their will be no AFW! 4/10's are going away! Mgmt states that 5/8 and 4/10 do not mix together! Well if they thought morale was bad before what do they think they are going to get now!

The Ramano mobster gang gets what they want and they have Steve L. in their pocket so get ready everyone, concessions and a base closure!

Oh yea.....This company is digging a deeper and deeper morale hole and their usual arrogance is going to just make things get worse and worse. They are desperate to get a TWU deal FIRST for obvious reasons. They are going to screw us again with the help of the TWU.

Word is that they are negotiating to "modify" the 18 month rag of a contract to convert the 5% and 3% pensionable lump sums into an an hourly increase.

They can take that contract and lay it on the bottom of the bird cage....

This company is so used to concessions AND layoffs that this time they really don't know what to do.

Close bases and lay people off,,,,but the concession stand is closed.

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh yea.....This company is digging a deeper and deeper morale hole and their usual arrogance is going to just make things get worse and worse. They are desperate to get a TWU deal FIRST for obvious reasons. They are going to screw us again with the help of the TWU.

Word is that they are negotiating to "modify" the 18 month rag of a contract to convert the 5% and 3% pensionable lump sums into an an hourly increase.

They can take that contract and lay it on the bottom of the bird cage....

This company is so used to concessions AND layoffs that this time they really don't know what to do.

Close bases and lay people off,,,,but the concession stand is closed.

On 1/18/03 there were 14007 mechanics on the seniority list. That does not include those who were laid off from TWA following 9-11.

Now there are around 10200 on the list.

A reduction of 3800 jobs, a payroll savings of $300,000,000 a year.

We were given ZERO credit for these savings, unlike the pilots whose union was smart enough to get credit for such savings and thus recieved nearly 10% of their concessions back the first year.

The TWU also helped the company bring in $500,000,000 in contract maintenance.

In response to that the company is threatening to lay off another 1300 mechs, bringing the total up to over 5000 jobs lost.

Now the TWU, when oil prices are finally starting to come down is working with AA management to jam in another two years of concessions down our throats.

Unfortunately as long as we have people like Jim Little, a former member of AA management, son in law of AA management, in charge of our union the concession stand will always be open. It doesnt cost Little anything to take money out of our pockets.

 

[Bob Owens]

Perhaps, but BA have flown 747's to JFK for over 30 years. So have LH, KL, JL, AF, and several other carriers. I don't see their name on any real estate.

They rent a bay from AA when they need one. the Concorde(both BA and AF) was a regular visitor as Hangar 10 was one of the few that could handle it.

DL is one of the three largest carriers at JFK and has been for over 15 years.

Have you seen the oversize garage that Jetblue has? JFK's their largest station....

Largest station of a small airline. I wonder what the ratio of aircraft vs line maintenance hangar bays available is. I bet its not much different between AA and Jet Blue.

Again, I'm not arguing whether or not AA should keep a hangar at JFK. Frankly, I don't care. But it's pretty clear they have too much space based on their future fleet plans.

Well if you are saying total hangar space, including three OH bases then I would agree. If you are saying too much hangar space at JFK or NYC then I would disagree. AA hasnt increased the amount of hangar space in NY since the time they only had 200 airplanes. If anything their NY operations have increased, not decreased and maintenance growth has not kept pace.

And Bob, thanks for the tip on Hangar 17. I had no idea they had that much WTC stuff still stored over there. If it isn't open to the public, it should be...

Dont recall mentioning any numbers and technically its on the AOA so it cant be open to the public. The point is they are using space for things that do not need to be stored in the AOA.

 

[eolesen]

On 1/18/03 there were 14007 mechanics on the seniority list. That does not include those who were laid off from TWA following 9-11.

Now there are around 10200 on the list.

A reduction of 3800 jobs, a payroll savings of $300,000,000 a year.

You can ask for a productivity savings for those heads, but it ties pretty close to the reduction in fleet size, so how you can claim it's increased productivity will be an interesting argument....

In April 2003, AA had 819 aircraft operating, not including that which was stored in the desert. Today, AA has around 645 aircraft, including the A300's and some MD80s which are still to be sent to the desert.

2003 ratio of mechanics to aircraft... 17:1

2008 ratio of mechanics to aircraft... 15:1

During that time, AA also whacked the F100 fleet and the PW powered 757 and 767 fleets. Throw in the maintenance halo for the 777 and 737 fleet vs. the older aircraft which they replaced, and it would appear to me that the maintenance staffing today isn't all that much lower on a per aircraft basis than it was before the concessions were implemented.


Also... you keep bringing up the 10% for the pilots. I know you're smarter than that, so if you're going to mention half of a fact, then also mention the bigger paycut they took during 2003-2004 because of how long it takes to pull out and requalify an entire fleet type of FO's and CA's on other types.

I'm not one to defend pilots very often, but if I apply your "future earnings" paycut methodology, even after the so-called 10% snapback, they still took the largest cuts of any employee group.

 

[KCKKen]

According to the latest info, MCI will be a two bay operation by the end of the year, with <200 amts. personally, I think we should shut it down now. F_ _ K em! :angry:

"The Latest info"? How long has AA been saying they wanted to cut "1300 mechanics"?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall -- take a look at the current Title 1 seniority list: 10,200 or so. Take off 1300 and see where it's at: a TWA mechanic with 1965 seniority! In fact, according to our calculations, it would take 1333 cuts to eliminate ALL TWA mechanics from the Title 1 list -- coincidence? And the Union is just now figuring this out -- "it has become apparent over the course of the past few weeks that the announced fall 2008 cutbacks at AA are likely to affect the MCIE Base beyond what was initially believed" -- PURE, UNADULTERATED MALE BOVINE FECAL MATTER (I'm sure you know what that is). "likely to affect MCIE" -- where the hell have they been? If they were any dumber, you'd have to water them.

Either 1) they are absolutely oblivious to what's been going on, 2) they're in on it with the company, or 3) both. Also, look at the majority of the people below the TWA mechanics on the Title 1 list: AFW. Looks like a big bloodletting for all but Tulsa.

They keep saying "this fall" -- again, PURE, UNADULTERATED MALE BOVINE FECAL MATTER. They know right now what the plan is (and the "dock plan" might as well be written in dust, it changes so much nowadays you're not likely to see the actual one online until after it's already passed), and they don't have the balls to TELL US. If they sent me off tomorrow, I'd be OK. Not great, but OK. However, there are many who aren't in the same boat -- they need to be able to plan ahead as far as possible, and all this does is play with their lives. Obviously, this means nothing to either AA or the TWU.

If the TWU had a shred of integrity it would immediately stop deducting dues from anyone in the "1300" range -- it's apparent they aren't representing them.

 

[mike757]

According to the latest info, MCI will be a two bay operation by the end of the year, with <200 amts. personally, I think we should shut it down now. F_ _ K em! :angry:

Fifteen years ago, TWA mechanics were a proud bunch of guys who didn't take it laying down. They would march, protest, picket, slowdown, petition, whatever it took to get our voice heard. Now MCI is full of old ghosts who ride around on their electric carts, and work puzzles all day, waiting for the ax to fall. I'm really tired of hearing them wine about why they can't retire just yet. They are disgustingly pathetic individuals with no spines, no dignity, and no future with the TWU or AA. Age discrimination and is alive and well at MCI!
It's embarrassing to be a part of this chicken sh-t outfit.

I'll be glad when it's over! :mf_boff:

 

[MCI transplant]

Fifteen years ago, TWA mechanics were a proud bunch of guys who didn't take it laying down. They would march, protest, picket, slowdown, petition, whatever it took to get our voice heard. Now MCI is full of old ghosts who ride around on their electric carts, and work puzzles all day, waiting for the ax to fall. I'm really tired of hearing them wine about why they can't retire just yet. They are disgustingly pathetic individuals with no spines, no dignity, and no future with the TWU or AA. Age discrimination and is alive and well at MCI!
It's embarrassing to be a part of this chicken sh-t outfit.

I'll be glad when it's over! :mf_boff:

<_< -----mike! What the hell is your problem? Are you looking for a scapegoat? What makes you think that anyone here at MCI gives a damn what you, or anyone else like you, thinks? We know what we've been through, and know what we can, and can't do. So piss-off!!!! The only regret I may have is,"if", I take the VBR, I won't have the option of choosing who's job I save! It may even be yours!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

"The Latest info"? How long has AA been saying they wanted to cut "1300 mechanics"?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall -- take a look at the current Title 1 seniority list: 10,200 or so. Take off 1300 and see where it's at: a TWA mechanic with 1965 seniority! In fact, according to our calculations, it would take 1333 cuts to eliminate ALL TWA mechanics from the Title 1 list -- coincidence?

Not to sure about the numbers, but at JFK there are former TWA mechanics with 1992, 93, 94 and 95 seniority. That would place them in the mid 5000 number range on the Master list.

 

[MCI transplant]

Not to sure about the numbers, but at JFK there are former TWA mechanics with 1992, 93, 94 and 95 seniority. That would place them in the mid 5000 number range on the Master list.

<_< ------ Hey hopeless! Why is it everyone is so interested in exTWA senioity when it's time to throw someone under the bus???? :huh: :down:

 

[FRMR12B]

"
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall -- take a look at the current Title 1 seniority list: 10,200 or so. Take off 1300 and see where it's at: a TWA mechanic with 1965 seniority! In fact, according to our calculations, it would take 1333 cuts to eliminate ALL TWA mechanics from the Title 1 list -- coincidence?

Hey KCKKen if they count from the bottom on the master seniority list to where you reference and if there still is an MCI he would be the most junior person to bump. Everyone who was rif'd couldnt bump (naatives included) because he would be sittin in MCI with 100%. Closing MCI definitely gives what the TWU wanted from the beginning almost. There are still 25% stations. Kasher is already counting the money for his next glorious arbritation decision. Ibet they layoff little by little causing a small juniority list that will discourage and stop any bump and roll.
Who came up with a juniority list? Is juniority a word?

 

[FRMR12B]

How does the juniority list work? Do they suck out of the master list the jobs being reduced then establish a new list counting from the bottom up?

 

[MCI transplant]

"
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall -- take a look at the current Title 1 seniority list: 10,200 or so. Take off 1300 and see where it's at: a TWA mechanic with 1965 seniority! In fact, according to our calculations, it would take 1333 cuts to eliminate ALL TWA mechanics from the Title 1 list -- coincidence?

Hey KCKKen if they count from the bottom on the master seniority list to where you reference and if there still is an MCI he would be the most junior person to bump. Everyone who was rif'd couldnt bump (naatives included) because he would be sittin in MCI with 100%. Closing MCI definitely gives what the TWU wanted from the beginning almost. There are still 25% stations. Kasher is already counting the money for his next glorious arbritation decision. Ibet they layoff little by little causing a small juniority list that will discourage and stop any bump and roll.
Who came up with a juniority list? Is juniority a word?

<_< ------ Answer! AA/TWU/ Kasher!--------- And yes "juniority" is live and well here at AA! And if MCI survives, you'd need at least 30 years seniority to hold a job here!!!

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------ Hey hopeless! Why is it everyone is so interested in exTWA senioity when it's time to throw someone under the bus???? :huh: :down:

Did u even read the post i was responding to? KCKKen made the statement that 1300 layoffs get all the TWA mechanics? I guess these pending layoffs should exempt ex TWA people and just stick it to the AAers.. Would that make you happy MCI?

And guess what MCI? When it comes to layoffs, the seniority list is the bible...Maybe we should remove the ex TWAers from the list, then have the layoffs, and put the exTWaers back on the list.

 

[Joe Patroni]

<_< ------ Hey hopeless! Why is it everyone is so interested in exTWA senioity when it's time to throw someone under the bus???? :huh: :down:

Desperation. Just like a child, it's the "If they can't see me, they can't lay me off" sort of thing.