M&E reductions announced

[MCI transplant]

30 years? Looks more like 40-plus -- but I could be wrong (if you were to ask my ex, she could give you a count, tabulated by the day )

All I've heard was that AA wanted 1300 mechanics laid off, and nothing has came out that would make me think otherwise. Taking the current Title 1 list on JetNet, subtracting 1300 from the bottom of it takes you up into 1965 seniority with TWA mechanics, someone at MCI to be exact. And if you count up from the bottom, it would only take 1333 or so to clean out all the TWA Title 1 heads.

Now if I haven't taken something into account, I apologize. But that still doesn't make what AA/TWU are doing (in dragging this out ad nauseum) right. They know right now what their plans are and refuse to elaborate it to those affected. J.H.Christ, treat us like adults, explain what the situation is, what has to happen and when. You'll have some that'll act like a$$es; fine, walk 'em out and be done with it. But TELL US. I hate to say this, and I have no idea of anyone in particular, but before this is over I'm afraid there's going to be someone who won't be able to handle this waiting game -- and AA/TWU will have no one but themselves to blame.

As for me, I'll continue down the same path I'm already on: I show up, the CC gives me a card, I work it to the best of my ability -- no more, no less. If no one gives me a card, I simply wait until they do or it's time to clock out. I feel no sense of urgency or no reason to drag my a$$; I'm no more loyal to this company than they are to me. This will be the way I approach every day until they tell me not to come back.

A little integrity would be refreshing from AA/TWU right about now. But the lack of it shouldn't come as a surprise to everyone at MCI -- the car in the #1 parking spot has always had Oklahoma tags on it, guess the committment to MCI wasn't too strong, huh?

<_< ----- Ken, problem with the way you did it is that not everyone on that list works at MCI! And the simple fact is if AA down sizes to 600 Aircraft, they only need one base! At least that's what I've been told! So do you really believe this 1300 will be the end of it?

 

[AMFAMAN]

I thought ol Kirk did not work for AA or the TWU anymore? Did I just get put in a bad mood?

He doesn't, he works for AFSCME, and on their LM2 he made $53,543 as an organizer last year

 

[skydrol]

This is a long thread and i have been reading it since inception however i cannot remember all that has been said and am too lazy to start from the beginning but i have a thought. Has anyone noticed the one work groups union that has willingly and whole heartidly supported and bragged about pajama parties HAS BEEN CHOPPED THE MOST?? I was told by every twu rep. these things made us valuable, can we learn anything from this lesson????

 

[MCI transplant]

This is a long thread and i have been reading it since inception however i cannot remember all that has been said and am too lazy to start from the beginning but i have a thought. Has anyone noticed the one work groups union that has willingly and whole heartidly supported and bragged about pajama parties HAS BEEN CHOPPED THE MOST?? I was told by every twu rep. these things made us valuable, can we learn anything from this lesson????

<_< ----- Friend, the only thing you can learn from all this is, if you work at TUL, your safe!------For the time being!!!

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ----- Friend, the only thing you can learn from all this is, if you work at TUL, your safe!------For the time being!!!

Best way for the company to force another crap contract down our throats is to take care of the largest voting block.

 

[FRMR12B]

That's the point....This is the reward for MCI having probably the best productivity.....I am glad you are finally seeing the light about AA management.

The point is their are a lot of excellent mechanics at MCI who take what they do very seriously. I bet they perform until the base closes in a professional manner, and when walked out will say kiss my ass. You didnt bring me down. I kept my end of the bargain and will move on stronger. Despite Carl Ichan, TWU, Kasher, IAM, AA, TWA, Compton, Meyers, Trans world corp ...................etc!

 

[MCI transplant]

That's the point....This is the reward for MCI having probably the best productivity.....I am glad you are finally seeing the light about AA management.

<_< ------ Hopeful,----- At this point in time, it dosn't matter if I "see the light" or not! I've had enough! ---- I've been in his business way too long! I plan on picking up my marbles and go home! There comes a time when you wake up one mourning and realize this ain't fun no more!

 

[Boomer]

Best way for the company to force another crap contract down our throats is to take care of the largest voting block.

Typically, Title 1 on the line votes in "lock-step" some 90-95% of the time on rejection of contract ratification votes: the flyers have always been AFW, MCIE and Title II.

From the latest seniority list: Total M&R Votes 12339, TULE 5045 members or 40.8% of the total leaving the system with 7294 or a majority votes of 59.1%.

Even after reducing the system side by the expected 1300 M&R reductions: total M&R members are 11039, TULE 5045 or 45.7% of the total leaving the system with 5994 members or a majority vote of 54.3%.

With AFW and MCIE on the chopping block, Title 1 at those overhaul bases should be on board: the question will hinge on what happens to Title II on a systemwide basis. From my experience with the 2003 "vote", most of Title II will vote for whatever the TWU brings back.

Presently Title II has 2140 members system wide. From what I can gather, the 1300 headcount reduction is not going to hit Title II nor is the planned reduction in flying going to result in station closures: at this time. Obviously, if AA went on a major tear ridding themselves of hangars in LAX, JFK etc, the numbers of Title II voting against any TA climbs.

That leaves roughly all Title II as the swing vote for M&R. With some 434 Title II being in TULE, that leaves 1706 members for the remainder of the system or a swing vote of 15.5% that has historically approved whatever they had placed in front of them.

The change, in Title II voting history, may come from the fact that soo many Title II will be unprotected in the Line Stations, AFW, MCIE and HDQ. The best sales pitch to the swing voters will get the votes. But, by and large and IMHO, the future of 12339 M&R members will be determined by less than 14% of the total.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

This is a long thread and i have been reading it since inception however i cannot remember all that has been said and am too lazy to start from the beginning but i have a thought. Has anyone noticed the one work groups union that has willingly and whole heartidly supported and bragged about pajama parties HAS BEEN CHOPPED THE MOST?? I was told by every twu rep. these things made us valuable, can we learn anything from this lesson????

The sad thing is that none of you in the airline industry are safe. AA is luckier than most in that you will probably get a trip through Chapter 11 if things get really bad, but your colleagues at UA and US are headed for the unemployment line if those companies are unable to cope with the oil price and competition.

Downsizing is an effective way to whether the storm for now. Happy early retirement to those of you taking the VBR.

 

[Hopeful]

The sad thing is that none of you in the airline industry are safe. AA is luckier than most in that you will probably get a trip through Chapter 11 if things get really bad, but your colleagues at UA and US are headed for the unemployment line if those companies are unable to cope with the oil price and competition.

Downsizing is an effective way to whether the storm for now. Happy early retirement to those of you taking the VBR.

True.. AA should have downsized 5 years ago instead of ramming concessions down employees' throats.
Now AA is having to deal with a devastating morale problem AND high fuel prices.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

True.. AA should have downsized 5 years ago instead of ramming concessions down employees' throats.
Now AA is having to deal with a devastating morale problem AND high fuel prices.

"Now AA is having to deal with a devastating morale problem AND high fuel prices."

The hideously low morale problem is a bigger threat to AA than fuel prices.

 

[getreal]

The hideously low morale problem is a bigger threat to AA than fuel prices.

I agree 100%, but either Arpey and his clan are either oblivious to the fact or don't
care. You decide.

 

[Bob Owens]

The sad thing is that none of you in the airline industry are safe.

Exactly and thats why you should never accept paycuts when the airlines claim they are in trouble, its like fasting and throwing out the food before a famine. make as much as you can while there is something to be made.

AA is luckier than most in that you will probably get a trip through Chapter 11 if things get really bad, but your colleagues at UA and US are headed for the unemployment line if those companies are unable to cope with the oil price and competition.

Not likely that both will simply dissapear. The government doesn't want too much capacity in the hands of too few carriers.

Downsizing is an effective way to whether the storm for now. Happy early retirement to those of you taking the VBR.

They downsized already. From 2003 to 2008 we lost around 4000 in just Title I.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree 100%, but either Arpey and his clan are either oblivious to the fact or don't
care. You decide.

Oh, I don't think they are oblivious, but I do think they don't care. They think that by threatening layoffs and service and facility cuts, that we are all gonna sing, "RAH, RAH and KuMBAYA" to help the company an reward the executives.


NOT!

 

[eolesen]

The government may not want too much capacity in the hands of too few carriers, but there are very few domestic markets left where there aren't at least three carriers competing. So I wouldn't look for a government backed bailout. The last one (ATSB) had some pretty high hurdles in terms of presenting a viable business case, and not everyone was rubber-stamp approved (e.g. UA). Several of those who were approved did pay back their bonds in whole, just to start failing all over again (e.g. TZ and US). So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for another ATSB style bailout.

If there are speculators willing to put DIP financing into Frontier, whose obituary was pretty much written the day WN moved back into DEN, then there are most likely speculators willing to put money into resurrecting UA and US. Airbus has done that time and time again, as has GE. Both have a lot to lose if UA or US collapses.

I think most carriers acknowledge the morale issue. They're just not going to throw money at the problem (which would be only have short term gain if at all). If history is any indicator, morale is never going to improve as long as the company is losing money, laying people off, and not investing in new equipment.

Everyone loves to point at WN, but morale even there is questionable these days. They're not growing at the same pace they were even five years ago, which means it's taking longer to get to the left seat. Stock has under-performed for several years, which means there aren't as many paper millionaires as there were ten years ago. Whatever halo effect there was from Herb and Colleen's presence is also gone.

Likewise at B6 -- their Obama was banished to starting up a new airline in Brazil, they're selling airplanes and pulling out of markets. It wouldn't surprise me to see a renewed effort to unionize there.


In a rare moment of agreement with Bob, lowering wages isn't going to solve anyone's problems. AA's downsized a lot, yet is carrying a lot of excess capacity in terms of real estate, and is still overstaffed in some areas (management and front line alike).

I'll take the line AMT's word for the fact that they're leaner than they were in 2003. I'm not as convinced that the overhaul hangars and shops have been trimmed back as much as the line has. Closing one or two of the smaller bases does make sense, just as it made sense to trim back on the number of active military bases we had ten and twenty years ago.

Sure, it sucks to be one of the people affected, but there's just no need to have the capacity for a 900 aircraft fleet when have 650 aircraft and plan to reduce that even further.