Management bump backs

ilg30/7

Advanced
Sep 12, 2002
106
0
Dea,

No.... Sap is basically an automatic function that we have had for years.... the reductions are fairly simple....

Less pilots and flight attendants = less crew schedulers.

We understand this, but it also means less managers, supervisiors, and trainers for crew scheduling... and these are the people who are being allowed to bump us. I angry because we are losing many good schedulers due to this inane policy....
 
OP
I

ilg30/7

Advanced
Sep 12, 2002
106
0
Well, we here in the crew scheduling department received our furloughs last week, and I am so mad I can hardly see straight. The management and supervisory personell in our department whose jobs have been eliminated are being allowed to bump back into scheduling, displacing our schedulers and maintaining their full seniority and pay.
Their justification for doing this is a small, little known clause in our PPG that sates that management can do this, on a case by case basis. However, it also states that this is NOT an automatic bump back right. In our department however, they have allowed EVERY SINGLE MSP employee whose job was eliminated to bump back into scheduling. Naturally, this has caused deep resentment and bitterness amoung those of us who work the desks.
I have NO IDEA how this can be justified. I realize that we are non - union, and thus management will do whatever the hell they want to do, but this is rediculous. I thought Dave's justification for the $6 million dollar bonuses was that management does NOT enjoy seniority protection, that their compensation and job security was tied to performance, and the money was needed to insure the loyalty of our best managers. Apparantly in crew scheduling you can enjoy the perks of management and the security of seniority at the same time. What garbage.
Is this happening anywhere else? I realize that these times have been hard on everybody, I certainly do not want to beat the 'poor me' thing into the ground. But right is right and this is WRONG. We in scheduling certainly do not mind taking our fair share of furloughs, But taking our share and managements share as well has led to a lot of anger as the cuts go deeper and deeper.
I know many of you are in a union, and have complained on this board, with much justfication, about the policies of your union. There have also been those on this board who have questioned the value and need of USAirways' unions. To them, I say look at our department..... look at what can happen when management is allowed to run roughshod over you. You will then understand why so many in this company, weather they love their union or hate it, feel the need for some protection.
This 'employee at will' is going for a walk. Need to blow off some steam......
 

UAL777flyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
730
0
Management employees having bump-back rights? Wow, that is surprising. I'm of the opinion that if you are a member of management, than your career should be based on work performance, not seniority. Seniority protection is for union employees and shouldn't be afforded to members of management, in my view. It makes it too easy for the bad employees with lousy attitudes to slip through the cracks and keep their jobs. I suppose each company has their own policies, but in my opinion, management bump-backs is a lousy policy.
 

drifterreno

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
611
3
And now you know one of the reasons why res went union. They fought long and hard for the fence agreement and that was a good thing. Now, sups cannot bump an agent unless they have less res seniority than them. That's why so many sups who were never reps or only worked res for a short time, are gone. They had no clue what it was like to be a regular res agent. Bye Bye
 

Res

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
361
1
www.usaviation.com
Thought an opening had to be available for management to come back to the floor? I didn't realize they could bump without an opening..are u sure..?
 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
1,132
1
www.usaviation.com
ilg30/7,
This is still USAirways..or rather what's left of it. Surfices to say..anything can be deemed believable with that in mind.

I for one would have never believed that when I was hired as an MSP type..that less than two years later , I would be acreeded into a Union (IAM) without a vote...or even being asked to fill out a request card.

OK , now I'm in the Union...The Union sits down and negotiates a payscale with the company...that only doesn't net me a raise..it goes into utter retrograde. Then the Union gets it's taste of my giant step backwards pay. (This is in Pre-Concession Terms too!)

The union also aligns me and my co-workers with other work groups by senority..NOT job classification. So now , myself and a few others are facing being Bumped straight to a Furlough by people that have never performed our job before...nor do they have any real interest in doing so.

What kinda logic is this based on? Frankly there is no logic at all behind it. Yes you will being freeing up my income..and the income of a few that are junior to me...but what has been effectively achieved? Myself and my fellow juniors are going to be replaced by Higher Paid People...that will have more vacation time to cover annually...and they still don't know how to perform our present jobs.

Logic and USAirways is not even surpassed by the contradiction of terms in regards to the old joke about Military Intelligence.

If I live to be a 100?..I will never figure out who's making these choices?...or how we have even survived to this point in the game?

Good Luck with your odyssey....
 
OP
I

ilg30/7

Advanced
Sep 12, 2002
106
0
Res,

if the question was addressed to me, yes I am quite sure that our MSP employees are bumping out crew schedulers. No opening exists. They are furloghing schedulers to do this.

I am not sure of the policy in Res.... it does sound, however, more sane than the one in crew sched. Several attempts to unionize schedulers have been made over the years, by the IAM, CWA, etc. For various reasons, including classification questions, these attempts failed. What I would not give for a contract to prevent this sort of garbage. At this point, it is not possible for my morale or enthusiasm for the future of USAirways to be any lower.
 

Hello Newman

Senior
Aug 23, 2002
376
0
When my station started reducing flights back in 1991 and cutting management nbrs,
they all bumped back into Customer Service and Fleet Service, bringing all of their seniority with them. I'm sorry to see thats happening in Crew Sked, hopefully they will know how to do the job and cancellations due to crew requirements won't skyrocket.
 

autofixer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,804
241
www.usaviation.com
Wow, that explains why the last time I spoke to a pilot scheduler, it was the weirdest and most formal conversation I have had since I left the Air Force! I did not know what to do, stand at attention or goose-step around the room. So it was a formally managemant type. Ah, but what do I care, my leave-of-absence was approved yesterday. Eject, eject, eject!!!
 
Look at it this way -- if you don't allow bump-backs, what sort of people do you expect to become supervisors? They certainly aren't making that move for the money.

Most MSP's served their time on the front lines, and that needs to be recognized once in a while. If they served their time, I don't see why bump-backs are a bad thing.

Is it fair to take an experienced 25 year employee and put them out of work, while an employee with far less experience keeps their job? Strong proponents of the union seniority system will say yes, that's fair. But contract language aside for a moment, I think I'd rather have the 25 year employee who can make gut calls in their sleep sitting next to me when **** hits the fan than someone who couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag without a manual in front of their face.

Now, if the MSP's who bumped down can't find their way out of a wet paper bag, you have a legitimate gripe.

Self-demotion from management back to the front line is allowed in a few cases at AA, but typically only back to the job they held before moving into management. Some workgroups put a time-limit on how long they can keep their seniority number, others don't.
 
Aug 20, 2002
167
0
would like to know if these folks have more seniority than others? if so then they should be able to bump back....sorry but seniority rules.......
 

MCORORES

Senior
Aug 19, 2002
317
0
www.usaviation.com
Res....a supervisor in RES can only return to the floor if there is an opening.....with the layoffs going on in our department that would be a hard sell to allow an ex supervisor to return to the floor and doubtful that would happen at this time.
 

REACC1

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
514
0
[BR][FONT face=Arial]Quote from everything.......sorry but seniority rules.......[BR]Not to Usair. Seniority is something that is expected. If jobs are cut or changed, it is expected to provide a level of security and create options for the employees being affected. At usair, it does not. It is another debacle that is deeply rooted in this company. Human resources should be ashamed. Haven't met a competant one in the bunch. This is read: 'We don't care,have lost sight of the big picture,are completely overwhelmed and did we mention, we dont care, we do what ever we want.'Time is time. 1+1=2. Logic.[BR]Websters definition of seniority:[/FONT][FONT face=System] [EM]Superiority over another by reason of service.[STRONG] [/STRONG][FONT face=Arial size=1]This applies to some but not to all. Its wrong.[/FONT][/EM][/FONT]
 

UAL777flyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
730
0
Since when does seniority rules apply to members of management? That is a protection that should only be afforded to members of a union, in my view. If seniority is going to rule management, than management should be afforded all the protections and protocals that come with being represented by a union. I think bumping back in management is a lousy policy. When a person takes a job as a member of management, he or she should do so knowing that their career will be judged based on performance, not seniority. And that's the way it should be. Otherwise, it makes it too easy for lazy, militant, malcontents to slip through the cracks and keep their jobs.