Mda To Republic

[Atlantic]

MDA pilots have in thier flight bag an AAA FOM. No one, but an AAA pilot can operate that a/c. It's not a wet lease, charter, sub lease, contract. They are and operate as AAA pilots.
The rub as I see it is in a merged list with AWA, who do those slots from MDA truly belong to? Those who are on the MDA list, or all AAA pilots by their doh.
As of today,no snap shot has been taken, AAA ALPA has not come out with any official statement v/s MDA. And alot of talk of MDA being sold, which would make this matter mute. MDA pilots have hired a leagle team. A wise move on their part.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The issue is not one of "screwing", it's that you have to have a "position or a job." [Etc. etc. ....]

[post="276945"][/post]​

Hope777,

I suspect what you see above is the position of several on the ALPA MEC, unfortunately.

Jim

 

[TheLarkAscending]

The issue is not one of "screwing"............  

To suggest that ALPA is screwing anybody is nonsensical.    

Can I or any other pilot help that? No, of course not.         

Yes, that is exactly the issue, and it is not absurd to describe it as such. Yes, every pilot can help it, together they can stop allowing the same horrible things to occur to the the least senior of their ranks, yet again, by standing together, as a union (ah, what a concept--isn't that the whole purpose???) to protect every dues paying member not just the uppermost tier. Hiding behind the "class and craft" is akin to bait and switch -- there is not one ounce of ethics tied to that type of underhanded manipulation of language.

 

[ClueByFour]

The companies are likely not going to over staff the airline during the integration because we want them to; they're going to cut the workforce to the bone by increasing productivity. Thus, how do you create a job or position for a group of employees whose aircraft and positions are being sold?

The union defends all the pilots on the list (which, coincidentally, fly aircraft that are all on the same operating certificate).

There is not one, not one pilot, or ALPA member that wants to see anybody get hurt or furloughed. To suggest that ALPA is screwing anybody is nonsensical. The MDA pilots are furloughed mainline pilots or CEL pilots and there flying is being sold.

Wrong. Assets from one certificate are being sold. Unfortunately for the MDA guys, most of the AAA MEC will happily screw the MDA group rather than place the slightest bit of jeopardy on their own slight hold on a seat.

Of course, the subsequent DFR lawsuit will ensure that all ALPA dues paying members are paying for this oversight for years to come, but Bill Pollack is not exactly known for his forward thinking.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The rub as I see it is in a merged list with AWA, who do those slots from MDA truly belong to? Those who are on the MDA list, or all AAA pilots by their doh.

[post="276971"][/post]​

The answer to that probably lies somewhere in ALPA's history.....

Much has been made of the fact that there are pilots at MDA out of seniority, which is somehow supposed to "prove" that MDA is separate. Unfortunately for those who take the position that MDA is a separate "division", this proves nothing - in fact, all the proof is on the other side of the argument. Standard ALPA contract language contains provisions for furloughees to bypass recall but retain their recall rights as long as there are pilots junior to them still on furlough. Hence, in a partial recall there could exist pilots flying 737's or Airbuses out of seniority (pilots senior to them still furloughed). Would that make those recalled pilots any less "mainline"?

There may possibly be a situation in ALPA's past where a merger occured with one or both companies having had a partial recall that resulted in some pilots returning out of seniority. How was that handled?

Were the slots awarded to the people on the property, even though some of them were there out of seniority?

Were the slots awarded in seniority order, even though it meant that pilots that had bypassed recall got the slots while pilots junior to them that had accepted the recall were put back on furlough?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

As of today,no snap shot has been taken, AAA ALPA has not come out with any official statement v/s MDA. And alot of talk of MDA being sold, which would make this matter mute. MDA pilots have hired a leagle team. A wise move on their part.

[post="276971"][/post]​

Atlantic,

I forgot to add.....

I feel sure that there are some on the ALPA MEC who are praying that the sale of the 170's will be announced before a snapshot is taken. That's the face-saving way out of the position the MEC is in - turning a losing argument into a lose-lose situation for the MDA pilots.

Jim

 

[CaptianBoomer]

320;

See the problem with you is this......."I don't like it and there is nothing I can do about it......

Pure BUNK..... if every mainline pilots stood up for what was right in the first place, this bait and switch, tit for tat, screw them as long as it doesn't hurt me attitude so prevalent at ALPA, this kind of crap wouldn't happen.


Boomer

 

[USA320Pilot]

The ALPA Seniority List Integration Policy Initiation Date (PID) and “snapshotâ€￾ will most likely be taken after the merger officially closes, which is scheduled for the end of September. Then ALPA president Duane Woerth will announce the PID some time this fall.

In my opinion, the MDA asset sale to Republic will be completed before US Airways emerges from bankruptcy and the merger is consummated, provided there is not competing plan(s) of reorganization (POR).

Again, the problem for ALPA and the MDA pilots is that you have to have a "job or position" to take to the merger and not be furloughed from the mainline. Will the J4J MDA pilots be integrated into the new US Airways pilot seniority list? Absolutely. I believe this will be done as a function of their mainline seniority and not at the expense of other furloughed pilots that are more senior and not employed at MDA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Light Years]

The ALPA Seniority List Integration Policy Initiation Date (PID) USA320Pilot

[post="277022"][/post]​

Gee, we'll have to be careful with that context. PID stands for Pelvic Inflammatory Disease.

 

[fr8tmastr]

"The ALPA Seniority List Integration Policy Initiation Date (PID) and “snapshotâ€￾ will most likely be taken after the merger officially closes, which is scheduled for the end of September. Then ALPA president Duane Woerth will announce the PID some time this fall".


So this is what the brain trust in CCY and certain members of the mec have come up with to deal with the 170 DIVISION.


"I believe this will be done as a function of their mainline seniority and not at the expense of other furloughed pilots that are more senior and not employed at MDA".

320 thats it, keep spreading the crap about how the folks at the division are somehow trying to void the seniority system at Airways. Maybe if you say it enough somebody besides a rep with the first initial G might believe you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The ALPA Seniority List Integration Policy Initiation Date (PID) and “snapshotâ€￾ will most likely be taken after the merger officially closes, which is scheduled for the end of September. Then ALPA president Duane Woerth will announce the PID some time this fall.

[post="277022"][/post]​

That should be one interesting snapshot, then. As the lawyers told the MEC (and as I've said before), at this point this is not a merger of US Airways Group or US Airways Inc with America West. It is a merger of Barbell Acquisition with America West, and Barbell operates no airplanes and has no employees.

Again, the problem for ALPA and the MDA pilots is that you have to have a "job or position" to take to the merger and not be furloughed from the mainline.

[post="277022"][/post]​

This is sorta like saying the former Allegheny pilots don't have a "job or position" at Piedmont. Obviously, in a merger - like the ALG/PDT merger - one carriers pilots bring their "job or position" with them.

And that's the point you're missing (or ignoring) - there was a merger. MDA - actually "US Airways Services Corporation Inc. (f/k/a MidAtlantic Airways, Inc.)" - merged with US Airways Inc ("mainline") and the MDA pilots brught their "job or position" with them.

Does that mean the "MDA" pilots have some kind of claim to "super seniority"? I suppose a case could be made, but have so far heard no one making that claim - except your friend the BOS F/O rep. The "MDA" pilots seem content with the fact that they are here out of seniority (in most cases) and seem perfectly willing to accept their place on the system seniority list.

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

Fr8tmastr:

With all due respect, per ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy, Section 45 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, the Seniority List Integration Policy Initiation Date (PID) or so called “snapshotâ€￾ cannot be legally taken until after the proposed merger officially closes.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

To be more specific, the PID means the date on which the respective MEC Chairman and the Executive Council determine that a reasonable probability of a merger being consummated exists or the date on which the Exeuctive Council determines that a reasonable probability of a merger being consummated exists, whichever is earlier. Seniority list integration procedures will commence on the PID.

Again, the problem is you have to bring a "job or position" to the merger and it appears that MDA assets will be sold before the proposed merger closes.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[fr8tmastr]

320, from the section you referred to, section 45 of the ALPA admin. manual.

Policy Initiation Date (PID) means the date on which the respective MEC Chairmen and
the Executive Council determine that a reasonable probability of a merger being
consummated exists or the date on which the Executive Council determines that a
reasonable probability of a merger being consummated exists, whichever is earlier.
Seniority list integration procedures will commence on the Policy Initiation Date.



It seems to me that the PID is not set in stone. Reasonable probablility does not mean "done deal". Nice try though. Why are you so determined to find loop holes to hurt pilots and not finding them to help?

 

[700UW]

When will he understand there is no such company as MDA, it is all US Airways?