MIA-FRA

[700UW]

So where are the statistics to back that up?
 
My son has traveled on that flight several times and there are connecting passengers from all over the US on it, not just FL.

 

[robbedagain]

I wonder if they wld add a muc from clt?

 

[700UW]

I wonder if they wld add a muc from clt?

Probably not, LH already flies the route.

 

[737823]

So where are the statistics to back that up?
 
My son has traveled on that flight several times and there are connecting passengers from all over the US on it, not just FL.

Are you kidding? Because your son took the flight you know all about the booking patterns? FCO and the rest of Italy, except Milan is all trash yields that USAIR could serve over CLT thanks to the bottom industry contracts they had in place. Now with higher costs and better gateways in the combined network the flight no longer makes sense. Why is it that MXP is the only destination in Italy AA serves yearround yet also unserved by USAIR?

Josh

 

[700UW]

Once again show the facts to back it up.

 

[737823]

Once again show the facts to back it up.

You show us your facts. Other than picking your son up at the airport how do you know? Much of USAIRs Europe network is focused on a low cost, low revenue model with connecting traffic flowing over CLT & PHL often targeting AA gateways-LAX, MIA, ORD.

Josh

 

[eolesen]

I'm no network planner, but if CLT is such a cheap airport to operate out of I would rather set up the schedules in such a way as to maximize its use it to funnel connecting passengers and those burning AAdvantage miles to 1-world partner hubs in Europe (be it LHR or MAD).

Yeah, the network planners won't agree with you on that notion. CLT might be cheap to operate out of as far as gate costs, but pushing the connections over CLT is a zero sum game and just cannibalizes from the overall system. Let DL carry the backpackers.

 

[700UW]

You made the claim back it up.

Wait you can't so you made it up once again.

 

[MAH4546]

The annual local demand between Miami and Rome is approximately 135,000 local passengers a year; between Miami and Milan is approximately 105,000. Between Miami and Venice is approximately 45,000. That is approximately close to 800 people per day flying between Miami and Italy's three biggest markets. It's more than every single other airport in the Southern U.S. and Italy combined.
 
More people fly between Miami and Rome in one month than do between Charlotte and Rome in one year.
 
The market isn't lucrative and it's mostly South Florida and California traffic flows. 
 
To be fair, it's not like South Florida-Italy is a goldmine, but the market is just massively huge, second only to New York-Italy. 

 

[737823]

The annual local demand between Miami and Rome is approximately 135,000 local passengers a year; between Miami and Milan is approximately 105,000. Between Miami and Venice is approximately 45,000. That is approximately close to 800 people per day flying between Miami and Italy's three biggest markets. It's more than every single other airport in the Southern U.S. and Italy combined.
 
More people fly between Miami and Rome in one month than do between Charlotte and Rome in one year.
 
The market isn't lucrative and it's mostly South Florida and California traffic flows.

As always thanks for weighing in with facts, Mark. If FCO and VCE are so great why has AA traditionally focused on MXP??

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yeah, the network planners won't agree with you on that notion. CLT might be cheap to operate out of as far as gate costs, but pushing the connections over CLT is a zero sum game and just cannibalizes from the overall system. Let DL carry the backpackers.

you just can't help yourself, can you.

your CURRENT EMPLOYER is the one that must be embarrassed about you. Let's just leave it at that.

Anyone who knows the slightest about the European market would know that it is AA, not US, and not DL, that is the bottom feeder not only to MXP and not only to FCO but also to Italy as a whole.

US actually has above average fares, very close to DL's and depending on the season or market even a few percent higher than DL's... even though DL carries more overall traffic and thus more overall revenue.

If you knew anything about joint ventures, you would know that there probably is not a single case between the US and Europe where a US carrier has a JV but does not have a revenue advantage to other carriers. So, right off the bat, it should be a red flag to anyone for you to say that DL, a carrier with a JV with an Italian airline, would be the low fare leader.


So, no, DL is not the bottom feeder and doesn't carry backpackers. AA and its partner BA take that title.



or else, DL knows backpackers who pay premium fares.

 

[MAH4546]

As always thanks for weighing in with facts, Mark. If FCO and VCE are so great why has AA traditionally focused on MXP??

Josh

 
Because the fares between the United States and Milan are typically (or in the case of from NYC, were, now with EK) strong, if only for the fact it lacks so much trans-Atlantic U.S. service outside of NYC (it has MIA year-round and ATL seasonally. That's it). It's the heart of Italy's industry and the far majority of Italy's wealth is in the North, but generally business travelers prefer Linate, and will take the connection in ZRH/LHR/AMS/etc.

LIN also takes a far above average share of long-haul traffic than other secondary airports. For example, MIA has flights to LHR and not LGW. MIALHR is 500,000+ annual passengers and MIALGW is less than 10,000 annual. But MIA has flights to MXP and no flights to LIN (no long-haul from LIN), but LIN still accounts for around 25% of MIAMIL boardings. 
 
Rome and parts south are quite poor - especially Naples and Palermo. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

except average fare data doesn't bear that out.

not only do DL, UA, and US get average fares that are as good as or better than AA gets in other parts of continental Europe, but AA has equally low average fares from MXP AND FCO.

 

[MAH4546]

except average fare data doesn't bear that out.

not only do DL, UA, and US get average fares that are as good as or better than AA gets in other parts of continental Europe, but AA has equally low average fares from MXP AND FCO.

 

Blah blah blah. Nobody is talking about the average fares on any particular airline. Get over it. 

 

[737823]

Even AZ struggles to make FCO work as a hub it's a trash yield market. AA is smart to focus on MXP if that's where the money and fashion industry is. Why has USAIR stayed away from MXP all these years? I know there are many Italians in MIA, and AZ did both FCO and MXP for many years but AA chased them away for MXP.

Josh