More People To Be Layed Off At Mci!

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

That's ok when the TWAers bump AAers.

Perfectly alright!

You didnt answer my question.

And actually its not all right but thats the way it worked out. If AA dont break you NYC will

 

[Hopeful]

You didnt answer my question.

And actually its not all right  but thats the way it worked out. If AA dont break you NYC will

[post="261022"][/post]​

AA purchased TWA to eliminate another carrier. They promised the TWA people jobs so the government would gave its stamp of approval.
Since that time, AA has shrunk in people and equipment.
Do you really need 3 overhaul bases?

Had the TWAers got 100% seniority in all stations, there would be no complaints.
It is a sad thing when ANYONE loses their job, but it sounds to me that the TWAers wouldn't be crying the "WOE IS ME" blues if more AAers would be out of work.

NYC got screwed the worse with this deal even with their 25% seniority, native AAers still hit the street, but all we hear is that AAers have been lucky enough to have the TWA cushion.

Since 4/10/01, how many TWAers have hung on for several more years to get a little "more" in their AA pension?

Had AA not purchased TWA, TWA would have closed its doors. Not for the reason that it couldn't survive on its own, but the effects of 9/11 crippled even the most financially well off airlines. AMR was about the strongest financially and look what happened here. Look at Delta's fall from grace!

 

[MCI transplant]

Can someone tell me why AA purchased TWA

AA has less planes and less people now then when they acquired TWA

What was the point.

How many AMTs from MCI are going to bump NYC and displace more AA AMTs :down:

[post="261018"][/post]​

<_< Time----- We're talking MCI here! Not TUL! Nobody at TUL, or AFW are being reduced! All I can say for the TWA purchase is that it must have seemed like the right thing to do, at the time! Hind sight is always 20/20! But be glad they did, because the exTWA people have been taking the full brunt of these hard times!!!!If Cardy hadn't, a lot of nAAtives would now be out of work!! As for NYC, I'll just say, I'de be vary surprised if that would happen! We're not talking about kids here! Seniority is back to 1986!

 

[MCI transplant]

You didnt answer my question.

And actually its not all right but thats the way it worked out. If AA dont break you NYC will

[post="261022"][/post]​

<_< Time---- It sounds like you may be worried! If there are exTWA people that can go to NYC, and want to, they'll come and take their 25%!!!! But not to worry, because I don't think anyone here is that hard up for work!!!! :down:

 

[MCI transplant]

AA purchased TWA to eliminate another carrier. They promised the TWA people jobs so the government would gave its stamp of approval.
Since that time, AA has shrunk in people and equipment.
Do you really need 3 overhaul bases?

Had the TWAers got 100% seniority in all stations, there would be no complaints.
It is a sad thing when ANYONE loses their job, but it sounds to me that the TWAers wouldn't be crying the "WOE IS ME" blues if more AAers would be out of work.

NYC got screwed the worse with this deal even with their 25% seniority, native AAers still hit the street, but all we hear is that AAers have been lucky enough to have the TWA cushion.

Since 4/10/01, how many TWAers have hung on for several more years to get a little "more" in their AA pension?

Had AA not purchased TWA, TWA would have closed its doors. Not for the reason that it couldn't survive on its own, but the effects of 9/11 crippled even the most financially well off airlines. AMR was about the strongest financially and look what happened here. Look at Delta's fall from grace!

[post="261033"][/post]​

<_< Hopeful---- I'm a little confused here! "a little more in their a.a. retirement"? Yes, this is true! but do you know that our a.a. retirement is calculated on a starting date of 4/10/01? Boy do I wish it was otherwise!!!! And how many times have I been told"Just be glad you have a job!" Well now a lot of us don't!!!

 

[Hopeful]

<_< Hopeful---- I'm a little confused here! "a little more in their a.a. retirement"? Yes, this is true! but do you know that our a.a. retirement is calculated on a starting date of 4/10/01? Boy do I wish it was otherwise!!!! And how many times have I been told"Just be glad you have a job!" Well now a lot of us don't!!!

[post="261051"][/post]​

What I am referring to is the AA pension that began on 4/10/01. We have a TWAer who is planning on retiring by the end of spring. With 4 years at AA, he said is AA pension will be around $300-350 per month.

Keep in mind, the TWAers did not lose that "first" year for vesting purposes like the nAAtives did. The rest of us actually have to complete another year to get the pension and that benefit.

I did not imply that the TWAers received an AA pension for all their TWA time.

 

[FWAAA]

Can someone tell me why AA purchased TWA

AA has less planes and less people now then when they acquired TWA

What was the point.

[post="261018"][/post]​

Maybe 'cause at the time, UAL was trying to merge with USAir?

Maybe 'cause at the time, nobody's crystal ball predicted September 11, 2001?

You may disagree, but I sincerely doubt that AA spent $742 million cash plus a couple billion of assumed debt simply to shrink to pre-2001 levels.

 

[Decision 2004]

Now Wait Just A Minute!!!!!!!!

I was told for over a year by the TWU and the TWU informer Newsletter that we saved 12,000 jobs and three maintenance bases via the restructuring agreement concessions.

Checking It Out (CIO), spewed this same line for over a year on this bulletin board while performing his anti-AMFA duties.

You surely do not mean to tell me that Jim Little, Dennis Burchette, Rick Mullins, Kevin Goremanns, and the rest of the punks, drunks, and cowards were telling us all lies while defending the TWU?

Now we not only have more RIF's in the wind, but we must concede more productivity and record turn times to save our job?

Let's look at a few forgotten facts:

Carmine Romano is one of the 46 involved in SERP debacle for which Carty resigned.

Jim Little told us that 3200 folks did not receive PIN Numbers to vote.

Jim Little told us that we would have to conduct a full re-vote to have a legitimate ratification of the concessions.

Jim Little told us that the TWU Constitution required membership ratification of changes in the collective bargaining agreement.

The Tulsa based TWU membership has voted down building a new union hall three (3) times and now the union is building one anyway.

I have been told Carmine was nicknamed "One Window per Day Carmine" for low productivity when he worked as a mechanic, and now YOU must produce more to fund his golden parachute.

I feel like someone may be telling me lies. But I just cannot put my finger on it.

 

[mike7867]

i have one thing to say. i am a x twa mech who is now laid off out of mci. all of the native aaers that are still crying about the twa purchase. if it wasnt for the twa puchase you know how many aa'ers would be out of work. aa move are md80 checks out of mci and st.louis to replace the f-100 work that they loss. now if it wasnt for those twa planes how many aa amts would have got it in tulsa. and those 300 flights they pulled out of st.louis had to go somewhere. and all of those b checks and layover checks had to go somewhere also. so all of those jobs that we did before the purchase of twa are now keeping the native aa people working. so maybe you ought to think about that before you cry about the twa purchase. i had 13 years in but i am seeing guys with over 30 years getting laid off. at least i am still young enough to do something else. oh and telling guys that new york will break them is bull. i worked in new york for 5 years and it was no big deal. and i was born and raised in missouri.

 

[Decision 2004]

Hell, I am NOT crying about the purchase of TWA. If you look at the time frame and circumstances at the time of purchase, it was a smart business move and really good deal. I agree with FWAAA's earlier post.

I am crying about the continuous company and union lies, while everyone sits on their duffs and does nothing about it, or just walks around in fear propogated by the same liars that have screwed them for 20 years.

Now the fools are being quoted in the Tulsa Paper with spreading the fear and lies.

One guy thinks if they sell off the maintenance base it is all over. He must be too stupid to read the contract and see that in the new allegeheny mohawk language also lies a guarantee that the purchaser must recognize our labor agreement.

I still maintain that if there is a remote possiblity of $500,000,000.00 in profit from third party maintenance, we would be better off sitting across the negotiating table from an employer with those profits, rather simply reducing the AMR debt to 21.5 Billion and negotiating with the poor house.

We should be demanding sell or spin of maintenance, not fearing it!

 

[DECISION 2007]

MCIE was, at one time, designated to be the 3rd party contractor. Meaning, the base will be used to avidly pursue 3rd party contract work to be done at MCIE.

My only question is, how? Now, with the signing of the lease and the projected furlough, we are melting down to a couple of hundred mechanics with assorted numbers on the support. What company would want a skeletal crew to work on their product and produce in a timely manner? MCIE will not have the ability to attract work as easily after the furloughs.

Point well made reference the purchase of TWA. Had it not been for the non-unionistic stapling that occurred...you poor guys with under 10 years with AA would be history, and that's no mystery! And as I posted earlier...you are next to be eaten...your "protectionary clause" isn't worth the paper it's written on...reason being...YOUR MEMBERSHIP...(twaers will be gone)...will vote pro concessions once again...only difference being...you'll have no one to blame this time around...your cushion is gone.

And now you cry the TWAers may bump system! How dare they think of using their contract to benefit themselves. You nAAtives should be glad the TWU allows you in a union. BTW..can't think of anyone at MCIE that would be intimidated by NYC...we have dictionaries to translate your lingo.

We should be demanding sell or spin of maintenance, not fearing it!

I see you have learned from AMFA and Delle.

 

[aafsc]

What I am referring to is the AA pension that began on 4/10/01. We have a TWAer who is planning on retiring by the end of spring. With 4 years at AA, he said is AA pension will be around $300-350 per month.

Keep in mind, the TWAers did not lose that "first" year for vesting purposes like the nAAtives did. The rest of us actually have to complete another year to get the pension and that benefit.

I did not imply that the TWAers received an AA pension for all their TWA time.

[post="261059"][/post]​

When I was at my former city I worked with an ex-TWA person who just came in part time. He was telling me that he is going to retire at the end of this year and that with almost 4 years at AA his AA pension will be almost as much as his pension from TWA with over 30 years there. And they did not lose the first year as nAAtives did.

 

[aafsc]

i have one thing to say. i am a x twa mech who is now laid off out of mci. all of the native aaers that are still crying about the twa purchase. if it wasnt for the twa puchase you know how many aa'ers would be out of work. aa move are md80 checks out of mci and st.louis to replace the f-100 work that they loss. now if it wasnt for those twa planes how many aa amts would have got it in tulsa. and those 300 flights they pulled out of st.louis had to go somewhere. and all of those b checks and layover checks had to go somewhere also. so all of those jobs that we did before the purchase of twa are now keeping the native aa people working. so maybe you ought to think about that before you cry about the twa purchase. i had 13 years in but i am seeing guys with over 30 years getting laid off. at least i am still young enough to do something else. oh and telling guys that new york will break them is bull. i worked in new york for 5 years and it was no big deal. and i was born and raised in missouri.

[post="261092"][/post]​

Again, you make it sound as no origional AA people have been laid off when in fact there are more nAAtives gone than ex-TWA. This is even stated in your MCIExpress on page 2 in the March issue. Yes, even if AA did not buy TWA's assets AA would still have layoffs but a TWA total shut down and all of it's employees and flights gone from the industry would have mitigated the layoffs at the other airlines because that would have been a capacity decrease that would have been good for the industry as a whole. So you could say that nAAtives that got laid off are a cushion for the ex-TWA still working. They get 25% a certain cities, so be it. However,when they bump to 25% cities they rub it in to the nAAtives who they are bumping or are senior to. I have NEVER heard of a nAAtive rubbing it in an ex-TWA persons face about how they(the nAAtive) have more seniority.

 

[aafsc]

<_< Hopeful---- I'm a little confused here! "a little more in their a.a. retirement"? Yes, this is true! but do you know that our a.a. retirement is calculated on a starting date of 4/10/01? Boy do I wish it was otherwise!!!! And how many times have I been told"Just be glad you have a job!" Well now a lot of us don't!!!

[post="261051"][/post]​

Your sense of entitilement is amazing. You expect AA to pay you a pension for the years your worked for a company that went out of business but did pay you a pension until 1985 (the year it was frozen)? And you also feel entitled to have people's jobs who have spent the last 15-20 years of their lives working for AA, building the airline to what it is (was) and fighting for the wages and benefits we have (had). Even with these current concessions, you are still making more than you were at TWA.TWAers started working for AA on 4/10/01 that is the EARLIEST their AA pension should start. TWAers should not be rewarded for their capitulation to Icahn at TWA. They were the lowest paid and agreed to the freezing of their pension plans while Icahn sucked TWA dry.

 

[eolesen]

One guy thinks if they sell off the maintenance base it is all over. He must be too stupid to read the contract and see that in the new allegeheny mohawk language also lies a guarantee that the purchaser must recognize our labor agreement.

I still maintain that if there is a remote possiblity of $500,000,000.00 in profit from third party maintenance, we would be better off sitting across the negotiating table from an employer with those profits, rather simply reducing the AMR debt to 21.5 Billion and negotiating with the poor house.

We should be demanding sell or spin of maintenance, not fearing it!

[post="261093"][/post]​

The contract language does appear to require the existing agreement to be honored, but consider this -- if there were a spin/sale, the RLA only applies if sold to another airline. Not as clear to me if Allegheny-Mohawk applies outside the airlines or not, since NRLA appears to allow multiple unions to represent a homogenous workforce.

If someone such as AAR or Boeing were to be the successor, the contract and all future negotiations become covered by NRLA as opposed to RLA. If there were a spin/sale to a non-airline, the contract would expire at the end of its duration, as opposed to automatically being extended until replaced by a new agreement. Since there is no required cooling off period before either side can engage in self-help, it's a definite risk for both sides.

Right-to-work laws also enter into the equation. Ironically, TX and OK are RTW states. MO is not.