More pilot recalls coming!

[fly with US]

But the rates MUST be attractive to some, because no 190 seat has been left unfilled.

The rates are attractive to NO one, even the pilots who freely accepted the 190. The only, and I repeat, the only reason people want the 190 is because they will be senior on it, instead of at the bottom of the list on the 73 or A320. They will be senior on it because nobody would take the 190 due the the very unattractive rates.

Don't confuse yourself into believing that these rates are attractive to some just because they want to be home 10 days of the month.

 

[Phoenix]

You know what? We aren't leading the race to the bottom, we won the race to the bottom.

.... 57% or our ---sy pilots voted LOA 93. A like number of ---sy pilots voted for the 190 pay rates. But the blame is not just on their shoulders. It's also on the shoulders of the guys who agree to fly at those rates. You can make more money outside this industry with your college degree. But some prefer to fly for crap.
....


pilot

Pilot, Mgmnt likes the way you reason. Since you brought it up, lets use it.

Pilots says: “57% of our pilots voted for itâ€

Phoenix responds: Yes, as you say 57% of your active pilots voted for it. The furloughees are clearly the ones exposed to the pain of choosing to fly or not to fly the 190, but they had no vote. That is to say, the furloughees are not included in the group “our pilotsâ€. I understand clearly. It is “you against us.â€

Pilot says: The blame also is on the shoulders of the guys who agree to fly at those rates.

Phoenix responds: W T F?! What about the Group I Capts who accept their job to fly with crappy health benefits and a crappy retirement. Are they wrong? NOOO. Anyone that is flying according to contract is doing just that—flying what has been agreed to. The point of decision regarding what is right or wrong is when the vote is taken. The contract is the standard. No one has the individual prerogative to judge what is right or wrong about a fellow pilot regarding a contract apart from what ALPA has voted.

But I digress. Lets pretend for arguments sake that pilots who accept the 190 are partly to blame. There have been about 1800 furloughs and only about 170 of them have gone to J4Js. And make no mistake, the 190 is basically J4J since the pay is about the same and there is no penalty for passing a recall to it, just like J4J.

But to use your reasoning, more than 90% of us pilots have voted against 190 pay scales and 10% voted for the 190 pay scale, by voting with our feet.

Pilots says: “Our pilots voted 57% in favor of LOA 93â€
Phoenix says: “Our pilots voted 10% to work under LOA 93â€


Cheers

 

[Phoenix]

Pattern Bargaining, Bubba, Pattern Bargaining. Those pay rates are showing up around the industry.

US Airways pilots - leading the race to the bottom (good luck getting them to admit that).

While everyone is trying to feel good about their vote, folks are missing the obvious.

1800 pilots at USAir were put on the street and then offered a job at 20% to 40% of their wage. Knowing they would not return to that, USAir now hires all the pilots they need for their routes at 20% to 40% of the cost of the pilots they are replacing, but they have devised a scheme whereby no one replaces another pilot as a scab.

Frank Lorenzo wishes he could have been that crafty. The 57% voters had no choice. They weren’t smart enough to see the options.

Or maybe they were.. :huh:

 

[Ardenian]

Well, it looks like the ride into the sunset of the U pilot seniority is about to begin.

Some thoughts:

Kirsch is the man who responsible for the U pilot’s loss in the Shuttle/U arbitration. He claims to have spoken with the arbitrator “off the record†and hence gave up fighting for Date-of-Hire for the U pilots. You should have seen his face at the LEC meeting after the Shuttle award when he asked, “How many of you pilots would have been happy with DOH with fences?†I think he expected no hands, but was faced with a roomful of hands. Clueless?

And who speaks to an arbitrator “off the record?â€

Carey was part of the Butkovic Negotiating Committee when the pension was given up. The NC worked closely with Siegel and the MEC to fashion a deal on which the pilots would not get to vote. I hear tell about ALPA facing a very serious lawsuit over those actions. What a guy…

This MC has continually refused to appear before the MEC to defend their position of protecting wide-body flying. Doesn’t DOH itself protect this? Then why don’t they just go for DOH? Why have they been so averse to answering direct questions?

Why do they state that “The bottom line has always been, what will your new seniority number buy you and how does that compare to what you could have reasonably expected without the merger? We have substantial attrition which speaks loudly to recalls and advancement.â€

What will my seniority buy me? My 18 years should buy me 18-years seniority! Who cares about attrition if you're going for DOH?

It sure looks like a set-up for accepting a slot job.

During a July pizza party in PHX, an AWA pilot asked Parker about the date of hire seniority integration of the AFA. Parker stated "luckily ALPA doesn't have Date of Hire in their merger policy.â€

Please Mr. Kirch, do not talk to the arbitrator “off the record.†Fight for your guys at least as hard as the AWA MC is fighting for theirs. The AFA went DOH, why can’t you at least fight for it?

Good luck all, including you AWA guys. See you on the A330!

And - one last time - Mr. Kirsch, no talking to the arbitrator "off the record!"

MERGER COMMITTEE UPDATE 11/10/06

As we continue the preparation for our upcoming seniority arbitration, we are pleased to announce the appointment of Capt. Jim Brucia of Continental Airlines as our pilot neutral. Capt. Brucia, along with a neutral selected by the America West Merger Committee, will serve along side arbitrator George Nicolau and make up the three person board that will hear our case. The roll of the neutrals is to advise Mr. Nicolau during the decision making process following the arbitration hearings. While the neutrals do not have a vote (Mr. Nicolau alone decides the case) they serve an important advocate roll for their respective pilot groups.

Capt. Brucia (DOH 1981) was a member of the People Express Merger Committee through their three year battle to overturn a seniority integration imposed on them by Frank Lorenzo in their merger with Continental Airlines. After securing a court ordered arbitration, Jim and the People Express Merger Committee were able to get a ruling substantially improving the placement of the People Express pilots on the Continental seniority list. They then had to defend the integration against a legal challenge by the Frontier pilots who were by then part of Continental. Jim's talents were later recognized by the combined Continental pilot group as he served on their Negotiating Committee through two contract negotiations and served as the chairman of their Merger Committee, a position he holds today.

The arbitration hearings will be held as follows:

December 04-06 January 08-12

December 11-15 January 15-17

January 22-26

The schedule for the hearings has us putting on our case during the December dates. The America West pilots will put on their case beginning on January 8th and finishing around the 17th with rebuttal arguments scheduled for January 22-26. All hearings are open to pilots and their families. We encourage all pilots to take some time and attend some of the hearings. You have a lot a stake. The view of the arbitration process is quite a bit different from the hearing room than from the crew room. Attending some of the hearings will give you a much better understanding of how Mr. Nicolau decides your placement on the merged list. All hearings will be held in Washington, DC. The December hearings will be at the Wardman Park Marriott, 2660 Woodley Road (Woodley Park Metro Stop on the Red Line). The January hearings will be the Mayflower Hotel, 1127 Connecticut Ave (Farragut North Metro Stop, L Street exit, on the Red Line).


Capt. Bob Kirch Capt. Phil Carey F/O Kevin Barry

 

[pilot]

If anyone thinks Nicolau is going date of hire he is thinking wrong.

I predict a slotting formula starting at the top of the list to the bottom of the list. Widebody fences for 2-4 years and no bump no flush.

But it will be irrelevant IMHO because I think DP is going to run these puppies separately for a LONG time.

pilot

 

[N924PS]

If anyone thinks Nicolau is going date of hire he is thinking wrong.

I predict a slotting formula starting at the top of the list to the bottom of the list. Widebody fences for 2-4 years and no bump no flush.

But it will be irrelevant IMHO because I think DP is going to run these puppies separately for a LONG time.

pilot

I have a source that tells me you are wrong: on all counts.

"Date of Hire is Unity and Unity is Date of Hire"

The number one Cactus pilot will come in about 960 or so on the combined list. 18 year USAirways F/O's will remain so until a Captain Vacancy opens and they will upgrade ahead of an 8 or 9 year Cactus F/O. You heard it here first.

 

[pilot]

Unless your source is Nicolau your opinion means just as much as mine.

It is an opinion. I hope your opinion is correct however and that mine is wrong. But I have read all of Nicolau's previous decisions and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that comes even close to what you are saying.

Unity at LCC is just as strong as the southern contingent. AKA the GAG. You may be familiar with them.

Unity on either side of the seniority integration will have nothing to do with Nicolau's decision. But even if it did you would not find unity anywhere on the LCC property. Unless you look in PIT and PHL.

pilot

 

[N924PS]

Actually, I was just stirring the pot just a bit.

No one save for Mr. Nicolau himself has any idea how the list will go. I read his previous decisions too. The one common thread is he weighed the positions of both parties and then......

did whatever the heck HE wanted and then both parties simply had to live with his edict.

So best of luck to each and every pilot. Hopefully your merged seniority number will "buy" you something you can live with now and provide hope for an upgrade, widebody, or base change as LCC plods on.

 

[Ardenian]

Unity at LCC is just as strong as the southern contingent. AKA the GAG. You may be familiar with them...you would not find unity anywhere on the LCC property. Unless you look in PIT and PHL.

pilot

Hey Dude!

Maybe you heard that ol' Lancie was re-elected in CLT with a term that runs to 2010! Think of how many times he can wet his pants by then!

The CLT fellas must be (in Lance's words) "Just plain dumb!" Or, at least the 22% of CLT pilots that voted for Sir Lancelot...

Long live the GAG!

Let my Daddy Vote!

All I know how to do is fly airplanes!

I just need five (or whatever) years until I retire!

How dare the RC4 stand up to the Company!

Parker (or Lakefield, Bronner, Siegel, or Wolf) is the Real Deal!

Just do whatever the ALPA advisors tell us to do!

I'm just plain scared of losing my job!

We just have to SAVE THE AIRLINE!

Chip Munn for MEC Chairman!

 

[pilot]

Yeah, I saw it.

I'll tell you who's wetting their pants.

Jerry Glass and Doug Parker.

 

[a320av8r]

Been told by someone in the know to expect pilot recalls to continue. Approximately 25 pilots per month at least through September '07 but probably much longer. This is due to attrition, E190 and A321 deliveries, and increased trans-atlantic service. Also in the process of recalling approximately 19 ground school instructors for the increased training.
Not a rumor, it is underway.
(This is for the Charlotte Flight Training Center.)

Good news!

I told you!