MRO Outsourced Maintenance

[MCI transplant]

:angry: ------- A scourge on both their heads!!!

 

[telebender1956]

:angry: ------- A scourge on both their heads!!!

I agree.

 

[xUT]

Globalization!!!
Study it and its effects!

 

[Boomer]

Try reading what I wrote. Did I say Bush had a thing to do with Glass-Steagall? No, I did not. I was just saying that deregulation is a Republican mantra. I was simply giving the Bush "look the other way" treatment of Wall Street and the banks as another example of how well various industries "self-regulate" and how well the "free market" works with no government oversight. Much like Bush/Cheney and the lack of need to check on safety issues with the oil companies. (And, don't you try any "revisionist" history here, either. I worked in the oil business for 20 years and still have lots of contacts in Houston.) Most of my friends still in the industry admit that the ecological disaster in the Gulf was a direct result of the government looking the other way over the past few years on oil company safety issues. Case in point...Halliburton was involved. The original mud they pumped down the well to seal it that failed had failed 3 of 4 tests made on it. Yet BP and Halliburton decided to use it anyway because it was the cheapest. Do you remember who was in charge at Halliburton before Bush came to office? Yes, that's right. Darth Cheney. His legacy lives on.

And, my point was not really who was for or against airline deregulation. My point was some of the posters on here love to chant the Republican mottos as long as their particular job, mortgage or investments are not affected. Then it is the government's responbility to step in and make sure everyone plays fair. I think it's called hyprocrisy.

jimintx,

Just so the actual record is clear:

LINK PROVIDED: 1) Sen. Ted Kennedy Pushed for Deregulation of the Airline industry; and, Sen. Ted Kennedy Pushed Airline Deregulation Without Having Jurisdiction Over the Industry

LINK PROVIDED: 2) Sen. Ted Kennedy Pushed for Deregulation of the Trucking Industry;

LINK PROVIDED: 3) Bill Clinton Signed NAFTA

LINK PROVIDED: 4) Brooksley Born Warns the Clinton Administration about the Mortgage Bubble

Regards,
Boomer

 

[Bob Owens]

jimintx,

Just so the actual record is clear:

LINK PROVIDED: 1) Sen. Ted Kennedy Pushed for Deregulation of the Airline industry; and, Sen. Ted Kennedy Pushed Airline Deregulation Without Having Jurisdiction Over the Industry

LINK PROVIDED: 2) Sen. Ted Kennedy Pushed for Deregulation of the Trucking Industry;

LINK PROVIDED: 3) Bill Clinton Signed NAFTA

LINK PROVIDED: 4) Brooksley Born Warns the Clinton Administration about the Mortgage Bubble

Regards,
Boomer

I believe that the idea was a carryover from the Ford administration. Not excusing Kennedys support but it would be inaccurate to imply that it wasnt an idea supported by the Republicans. Of the 5 Co-sponsors of the bill three were Republicans and one was a Republican who became a Democrat five years earlier. One CoSponsor, Ted Stevens, recently died in a plane crash, his wife had also been killed in a plane crash in 1978. Guess his part in driving down aviation workers pay and reducing safety came full circle.

I also feel that Deregulation was not the major blow to labor that some claim it was, it was a factor, but not the biggest, the biggest blow was Reagans firing of PATCO and the non-reaction of the AFL-CIO. The industry was deregulated in 1978, yet airline wages increased at record rates (mostly due to inflation)until after Patco, where they started to plummett. Reagans firing of Patco and Federal Court decisions that allowed airlines to use Bankrupcty as a means of circumventing the RLA, allowing them to slash wages and benifits during the hard times, then use the same RLA to prevent workers from recouping them during the good times was what continues to drag us down to the very present. Ironically some of the low cost carriers that sprouted up thanks to deregulation are the most generous employers in the industry.

 

[Vortilon]

The air traffic controllers were federal employees period. They knew what was in their contract, and walk-outs were considered illeagal. As sad as it was, they were federal employees bound by the restrictions that came with the job. You really can't compare that situation to airline industry employees; even though, we were sympathetic to their cause.

Here is a decent info link with more details: http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id296.htm

 

[eolesen]

I believe that the idea was a carryover from the Ford administration. Not excusing Kennedys support but it would be inaccurate to imply that it wasnt an idea supported by the Republicans. Of the 5 Co-sponsors of the bill three were Republicans and one was a Republican who became a Democrat five years earlier. One CoSponsor, Ted Stevens, recently died in a plane crash, his wife had also been killed in a plane crash in 1978. Guess his part in driving down aviation workers pay and reducing safety came full circle.

You can be a real ass at times, Bob...

First of all, Stevens was an Army pilot and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for flying during WW-II (yes, he was that old).

Second, as you say, his first wife died in an aircraft accident at ANC in 1978, and he survived that accident with severe injuries.

He was a staunch supporter of general aviation, and helped get federal funding for both ADS-B, revised digital mapping of Alaska so that pilots would have more accurate information about the terrain they were flying in, and remote cameras to aid FAA flight service stations with determining conditions in mountain passes and at remote unstaffed airfields. ADS-B alone is credited with reducing CFIT accidents by almost 50% in Alaska. That's a huge number. And the aircraft he was flying on wasn't equipped with it, so it will be quite ironic if CFIT is determined to be the cause of the accident that claimed the lives of Stevens four others.

If you think Ted Stevens was a proponent of driving down safety simply because he had an (R) after his name, then you're more full of crap than you usually are when it comes to stuff you know squat about.

 

[Bob Owens]

If you think Ted Stevens was a proponent of driving down safety simply because he had an (R) after his name, then you're more full of crap than you usually are when it comes to stuff you know squat about.

If you read the thread you would have read that he was a cosponsor of airline deregulation.

Vortilon;The air traffic controllers were federal employees period. They knew what was in their contract, and walk-outs were considered illeagal. As sad as it was, they were federal employees bound by the restrictions that came with the job. You really can't compare that situation to airline industry employees; even though, we were sympathetic to their cause

And I guess you feel they should have locked up Rosa Parks for violating the law as well. She knew the law. If she didnt like riding in the back of the bus she was free to move up north right?

The government refused to bargain, their contract became amendable under Carter, Reagan claimed he supported them in order to get their backing, once in office he turned his back on them.

 

[telebender1956]

A little jog of the memory for those who may have forgotten.


My link

 

[Hopeful]

If you read the thread you would have read that he was a cosponsor of airline deregulation.



And I guess you feel they should have locked up Rosa Parks for violating the law as well. She knew the law. If she didnt like riding in the back of the bus she was free to move up north right?

The government refused to bargain, their contract became amendable under Carter, Reagan claimed he supported them in order to get their backing, once in office he turned his back on them.

Reagan fired controllers for an ILLEGAL strike....Plain and simple. He gave them until the the beginning of their next shift to return to work.

 

[telebender1956]

The fired controllers actually had 48 hours to return to work before they were fired. PATCO,TWU, and other unions still want to blame Reagan and and his handling of the ILLEGAL PATCO Strike for all of their problems.We TWU members never took a sworn oath not to strike like the PATCO members did. They gave Reagan[or no other President for that matter] no other choice because he was backed into a corner as a result of their actions.
It was the very same result as if the US Military went on strike. Do you think any President would sit by and do nothing?
Bill Clinton DENIED AA Pilots the right to self help in the late 1990's. I'm not going to blame him for all of our Labor Union problems today.
The reason labor unions are weakened today is simple: Look in the mirror. WE collectively have NOT been been willing to risk it all for a legitimate fight against management.It is extremely difficult to get 40 people to stick together for something as simple as REFUSING PROFFERED OVERTIME.This is a result of the ME generation and not Ronald Reagan.

 

[eolesen]

If you read the thread you would have read that he was a cosponsor of airline deregulation.

If you'd read the actual legislation, you'd see that it was deregulation of price controls and route monopolies/duopolies.

Nowhere was safety deregulated.

 

[Hopeful]

If you'd read the actual legislation, you'd see that it was deregulation of price controls and route monopolies/duopolies.

Nowhere was safety deregulated.

No of course that was not the intent. But it was one of the results of deregulation. The only ways for airlines to compete with the likes of Peoples Express at that time was to look everywhere for savings. But if memory serves me correctly, the airlines turned mainly to labor as the quick fix. They did not cut back on service and ammenities. They cut back on labor.
Where we used to have every imagineable aircraft part in stock, now we see more deferrals than ever due to lack of parts. We say scheduled maintenance checks extended between intervals.
The airlines response to deregulation was to slash labor costs so they would be able to offer cheap fares. Many of us were employed by the airlines long before deregulation, during deregulation and currently a deregulated environment.
I, as many, speak from experience.
And look at those airlines who succumbed early to bankruptcy....No one took it more brutally than the airline employee. No one!
And they still want more!

Continental and TWA both filed for more than one bankruptcy...Why was that? Did not those employees suffer enough?
Eastern? PanAM? Those employees were economically and morally raped by management. Managament painted labor as the arch ememy of profitablity!

Having said that, I know pro-company pundits want to say that outsourced maintnenance is just as good as work done here.
But I will tell you this, there is no substitute for working directly for the company that pays you to fix THEIR aircraft!

 

[aapitbull]

Reagan fired controllers for an ILLEGAL strike....Plain and simple. He gave them until the the beginning of their next shift to return to work.

That's right, now ask yourself should strking ever be IILLEGAL? No it should not, but thanks to the AFL-CIO and the politicans we keep getting laws passed that are supposed to help the working man but in reality they handcuff our rights to collective bargaining. remember the goal is to control the unions and co-opt the votes and money for use by others.

Pitbull

 

[WorldTraveler]

No of course that was not the intent. But it was one of the results of deregulation. The only ways for airlines to compete with the likes of Peoples Express at that time was to look everywhere for savings. But if memory serves me correctly, the airlines turned mainly to labor as the quick fix. They did not cut back on service and ammenities. They cut back on labor.
Where we used to have every imagineable aircraft part in stock, now we see more deferrals than ever due to lack of parts. We say scheduled maintenance checks extended between intervals.
The airlines response to deregulation was to slash labor costs so they would be able to offer cheap fares. Many of us were employed by the airlines long before deregulation, during deregulation and currently a deregulated environment.
I, as many, speak from experience.
And look at those airlines who succumbed early to bankruptcy....No one took it more brutally than the airline employee. No one!
And they still want more!

Continental and TWA both filed for more than one bankruptcy...Why was that? Did not those employees suffer enough?
Eastern? PanAM? Those employees were economically and morally raped by management. Managament painted labor as the arch ememy of profitablity!

Having said that, I know pro-company pundits want to say that outsourced maintnenance is just as good as work done here.
But I will tell you this, there is no substitute for working directly for the company that pays you to fix THEIR aircraft!

Perhaps you can explain using your logic how US aviation is now as safe as it has ever been and most of the accidents that have occurred recently are pilot error.

For all the hype about how unsafe contract maintenance is, can you cite the maintenance related accidents that have occurred as a result of outsourcing?
It's fine to argue for the validity of in-house maintenance but you have to use data that actually says that - and not deny the reality that the most significant maintenance related accidents and fines for mainteance violations do not involve outsourcing.

There are alot of reasons why maintenance should be done in-house but there is no link to safety - if it was, I can assure you there would be much more interest in limiting outsourcing.