New 18% Paycut For Pilots

[Bear96]

However, I also read that these pay cuts will take place next year, mid-January if I'm not mistaken. Hence, there may or may not be a direct correlation between making our 4th Qtr DIP requirement and what happens the first 2 quarters of '05 and beyond.

[post="199031"][/post]​

The direct correlation is that the way the DIP covenants are structured (with cumulative targets instead of looking at each month or quarter in isolation), once you get behind the 8-ball, it is nearly impossible to get out of the hole.

But, you and jetz have become our very own UAL320pilots, where everything with your employer is just rosy and wonderful days of expansion and growth are right around the corner no matter what the reality of the situation is, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and we will see what happens.

 

[ualdriver]

Well, I'm nothing like that A320pilot guy. I'm not a management apologist and I don't think things are "rosy" here. There are some things that I will absolutely, positively vote "no" on if they're in our contract, and I also feel there are some things that could come ALPA's way where "self help" may be in order. I haven't seen the details of the company's proposal yet, and I hope that my personal "line in the sand" items aren't in there.

I am, however, looking at the latest numbers and cuts. As I looked at the cuts in the past and looked at our quarterly filings, the old cuts just seemed like "band-aids" to me that would only work in a very favorable environment. Now it seems like *if* we make it out of bankruptcy we might actually have a workable plan, even if the revenue/fuel/Iraq environment doesn't improve. We shall see.

 

[JungleClone]

ALPA doesn't fight their battles in public? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, then I guess the Summer of 2000 never happened.

The only time ALPA doesn't fight their battles in public is when the company has all the leverage, which is now. ALPA, like every other labor group, will have no choice but to give in to the company's demands. They're only other alternative would be to shut United down for good, which isn't much of an alternative at all.

 

[767jetz]

OUCH Bear! Now that's hittin' below the belt.

Hey, I'm not spreading propaganda, or badgering fellow employees. All I'm saying is that until ALPA comes out with some official information, everything else is pure speculation.

Unlike a certain USAir pilot, I can't stand rumor mongering.

I remain optimistic about my future at United Airlines. But I certainly don't think everything is rosey. I'm sure we're all in for some more pain.
------------------------------------------------------

As for ALPA not negotiating in public, that statement remains true. Summer of 2000 had nothing to due with communicating in public. It was about a collective bargaining process that was seriously mismanaged by an inept former management team.

Public opinion will not effect the outcome of this round of negotiations. And unofficial information and rumors only serve to raise people's emotions. When ALPA comes to an agreement you will all hear about it.

 

[Borescope]

The official word from ALPA is that the "ask" from the company is being reviewed by the MEC and when we negotiate a final cut, it will be made public.

[post="198971"][/post]​

This may be the "ask", but if it doesn't fit with what the company wants or needs they will go to the playgrounfd bully and have him impose what they want. ALPA, or for that matter any of the other unions, are in no position to negiotiate. It will just be BOHICA

 

[Borescope]

Summer of 2000 had nothing to due with communicating in public. It was about a collective bargaining process that was seriously mismanaged by an inept former management team.

[post="199241"][/post]​

It's always someone elses fault, isn't it? :down:

 

[ualdriver]

I'm sorry Borescope. Were the 74 (yes, seventy-four) days of strikes that the IAM staged in the past years someone else's fault too? As a fellow union member, one would think that he/she wouldn't criticize past alleged job actions as perhaps his/her union has had job actions in the past or might use a job action as leverage in the future. Let's not even bring up that little time card fiasco.

I think we've beaten these subjects to death now, don't you?

 

[casual rat]

Live for today. Plan for Tomorrow. Learn from the Past. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

 

[Borescope]

I'm sorry Borescope. Were the 74 (yes, seventy-four) days of strikes that the IAM staged in the past years someone else's fault too?

[post="199332"][/post]​

I have seen anywhere that it was someone elses fault. It was the IAM don't you think?............
Now back to the topic at hand.......... If you look at your pay cut this way it might not hurt as much. Since you already gave up a bunch in the first round, an 18% pay cut isn't going to be as much dollar wise this time around because you are already making less.

 

[boeing787]

Either we take the cuts and the pain or we don't have an airline nor jobs and we lose to the other guys. No choice here folks. You can #### all you want...live to fight another time. We DON"T have a say.

 

[aafsc]

Either we take the cuts and the pain or we don't have an airline nor jobs and we lose to the other guys. No choice here folks. You can #### all you want...live to fight another time. We DON"T have a say.

[post="199404"][/post]​

If the EAL people thought this way in 1989, you would have taken these cuts 15 years ago.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

If the EAL people thought this way in 1989, you would have taken these cuts 15 years ago.

[post="199408"][/post]​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Excellent point", aafsc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

NH/BB's

 

[Bear96]

Either we take the cuts and the pain or we don't have an airline nor jobs and we lose to the other guys. No choice here folks.

[post="199404"][/post]​

Sure there is. I vote for letting "the other guys" have the crappy airline jobs that will be left once all is said and done.

 

[spacewaitress]

Story here:
ALPA synopsis: 18%

"He declined to reveal the pay-cut figure proposed by United and would not confirm numbers listed in a union synopsis obtained by the Rocky Mountain News.

The synopsis says United's proposed wage cuts would run as high as about 18 percent, but could be reduced with work-rule and benefit reductions. The synopsis says the proposal also calls for an additional, temporary wage cut of 4 percent."

 

[aafsc]

Story here:
ALPA synopsis: 18%

"He declined to reveal the pay-cut figure proposed by United and would not confirm numbers listed in a union synopsis obtained by the Rocky Mountain News.

The synopsis says United's proposed wage cuts would run as high as about 18 percent, but could be reduced with work-rule and benefit reductions. The synopsis says the proposal also calls for an additional, temporary wage cut of 4 percent."

[post="199507"][/post]​

Wow, a B747-400 captain flying trans-pacific making less (per hour) than a Southwest captain flying a 737 from PHX to TUS. Very sad indeed.