New AA Union Drive

[ReadyNow]

I've said this for a long time. AA's management "quality" is such that some manner of representation over and above what is afforded by employment law is necessary to deal with the "Good ol' boy" network within the salaried ranks, but representaion that works for the membership and not the company, as does the TWU.

Given no representation at all, AA labor would digress to the same level of cronyism in rather short order as there is no shortage of "the friendly sort" in TULE and probably the rest of the system. Time was, in a union shop, one didn't dare give the appearance of a "collaborator" - now it's accepted, unfortunately.

I'm still not certain, however, that AMP is the answer but, much the same as was AMFA once upon a time, it's now the only viable game in town - a position that implies the desperation of the present TWU membership to be rid of those who abused their trust.

I am curious as to what the AMP supporters see as the reaslitic timeline and path to a settlement. Here is my prediction: AMP gets vote around March/April 2011. AMP wins vote in May/June 2011. AMP hires pro negotiators next Aug 2011.

Path A: AMP demands Restore and More - company caves and gives everything back - new contract passes Fall 2011 - Yeah!!!!

Or Path B: NMB restarts negotiation clock. AMP takes hard line - puts up billboards/info pickets - no more discussions or working with management...AMP and AMR go back and forth like APA and company - get nowhere, but no impasse since clock restarted with new union. 2013 - members vote out AMP hard liners (see APA) and vote in reasonable people and get the 2010 TA in 2013 with a little inflation bump

Path C: AMR starts down the NWA road and ends up in strike/impasse....maximum bad feelings...hate discontent....resulting in either breaking union or BK....People take new jobs at AAR for 20% less but are glad they went down swinging...

What is the likely path? Would some one lke to sketch out a road to success?

 

[Frank Szabo]

I am curious as to what the AMP supporters see as the reaslitic timeline and path to a settlement. Here is my prediction: AMP gets vote around March/April 2011. AMP wins vote in May/June 2011. AMP hires pro negotiators next Aug 2011.

Path A: AMP demands Restore and More - company caves and gives everything back - new contract passes Fall 2011 - Yeah!!!!

Or Path B: NMB restarts negotiation clock. AMP takes hard line - puts up billboards/info pickets - no more discussions or working with management...AMP and AMR go back and forth like APA and company - get nowhere, but no impasse since clock restarted with new union. 2013 - members vote out AMP hard liners (see APA) and vote in reasonable people and get the 2010 TA in 2013 with a little inflation bump

Path C: AMR starts down the NWA road and ends up in strike/impasse....maximum bad feelings...hate discontent....resulting in either breaking union or BK....People take new jobs at AAR for 20% less but are glad they went down swinging...

What is the likely path? Would some one lke to sketch out a road to success?

Considering your preoccupation in almost all of your posts re: "What If", I would highly suggest you consult a fortune teller, buy a pack of Tarot cards, or acquire a crystal ball from a seller on FleaBay as nobody here has any of the answers you're seeking.

Also an excellent example of IF - IF frogs had wings, they could screw pigeons.

Get back with us when you've reached Nirvana.

 

[aapitbull]

I am curious as to what the AMP supporters see as the reaslitic timeline and path to a settlement. Here is my prediction: AMP gets vote around March/April 2011. AMP wins vote in May/June 2011. AMP hires pro negotiators next Aug 2011.

Path A: AMP demands Restore and More - company caves and gives everything back - new contract passes Fall 2011 - Yeah!!!!

Or Path B: NMB restarts negotiation clock. AMP takes hard line - puts up billboards/info pickets - no more discussions or working with management...AMP and AMR go back and forth like APA and company - get nowhere, but no impasse since clock restarted with new union. 2013 - members vote out AMP hard liners (see APA) and vote in reasonable people and get the 2010 TA in 2013 with a little inflation bump

Path C: AMR starts down the NWA road and ends up in strike/impasse....maximum bad feelings...hate discontent....resulting in either breaking union or BK....People take new jobs at AAR for 20% less but are glad they went down swinging...

What is the likely path? Would some one lke to sketch out a road to success?

I would say most likely none of the above try PATH D

The TWU and the company take the surveys the TWU provides and tweaks the T/A just enough to stick another concession up our collective asses because the members listen to change from within B.S. and fear their on shadow, then maybe enough people will see something has to be done.

It is funny you say AMP will take a restore and more postion yet no one I know on the steering committee has taken a postion on the contract other than it cannot be another concession, but believe what you want. The TWu says were radicals so it must be true yet they maintain the line stations are run by AMFA supporters yet they don't seem so radical.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I would say most likely none of the above try PATH D

The TWU and the company take the surveys the TWU provides and tweaks the T/A just enough to stick another concession up our collective asses because the members listen to change from within B.S. and fear their on shadow, then maybe enough people will see something has to be done.

It is funny you say AMP will take a restore and more postion yet no one I know on the steering committee has taken a postion on the contract other than it cannot be another concession, but believe what you want. The TWu says were radicals so it must be true yet they maintain the line stations are run by AMFA supporters yet they don't seem so radical.

I don't see the silence from the AMP drive in Tulsa as the members "listening to change from within B.S. and fear their own shadow" as you suggest....I see an intelligent membership informed on the AMP Constitution and their steering committees lack of viable experience and funding required to fully represent them...

AMP should just go "sit in the Truck"

 

[TWU informer]

I don't see the silence from the AMP drive in Tulsa as the members "listening to change from within B.S. and fear their own shadow" as you suggest....I see an intelligent membership informed on the AMP Constitution and their steering committees lack of viable experience and funding required to fully represent them...

AMP should just go "sit in the Truck"

You obviously struggle to read and comprehend. aapitbull said nothing about silence from the AMP drive in Tulsa. I hear more about AMP in Tulsa everyday.

You take a statement about the possible outcome of failed TWU negotiations and twist into your own version of meaning regarding AMP success or failure in Tulsa. No wonder we have a backlog of 1100 plus grievances. Do you twist the facts on those also? Maybe if you would actually deal in facts instead of twisted facts, half truths, or out right lies, or version of what you think you read or hear, then you too might see the real problem once again.

Before the AMP dirve started you and I had many conversations. I listened as you complained about the TWU, gave specifics about your concerns regarding your current representation. Your friends even told me how you expressed the same disgust with them. A card drive starts, and presto the TWU is once again the best on the planet. Simply amazing.

 

[ReadyNow]

It is funny you say AMP will take a restore and more postion yet no one I know on the steering committee has taken a postion on the contract other than it cannot be another concession, but believe what you want.

From what starting point are they saying "no concessions"? 2003?

Do they mean no "net concessions" or no concessions on any indvidual contract item?

One thing that will happen is the NMB will reset the Impasse clock....Will that be good, bad or unimportant?

 

[High Speed Steel]

You obviously struggle to read and comprehend. aapitbull said nothing about silence from the AMP drive in Tulsa. I hear more about AMP in Tulsa everyday.

You take a statement about the possible outcome of failed TWU negotiations and twist into your own version of meaning regarding AMP success or failure in Tulsa. No wonder we have a backlog of 1100 plus grievances. Do you twist the facts on those also? Maybe if you would actually deal in facts instead of twisted facts, half truths, or out right lies, or version of what you think you read or hear, then you too might see the real problem once again.

Before the AMP dirve started you and I had many conversations. I listened as you complained about the TWU, gave specifics about your concerns regarding your current representation. Your friends even told me how you expressed the same disgust with them. A card drive starts, and presto the TWU is once again the best on the planet. Simply amazing.

Informer, I don't see where you can point your finger at me and call me a liar! Where have I lied about anything? I've only pointed to the facts of the AMP constitution and there has been little rebuttal to the truth that has been exposed. You guys and your pet project crack me up, now you've gone completely bonkers...LOL

Informer, "go sit in the Truck".... 😛

 

[TWU informer]

Informer, I don't see where you can point your finger at me and call me a liar! Where have I lied about anything? I've only pointed to the facts of the AMP constitution and there has been little rebuttal to the truth that has been exposed. You guys and your pet project crack me up, now you've gone completely bonkers...LOL

Informer, "go sit in the Truck".... 😛

Now you think I called you a liar.

Look out the window quick, there are 4 black helicopters over your house. And there is a boogie man tired of the TWU under your bed too.

Come on down to the Informational Meeting next Saturday and expose the truth of yours in person. We'll get it on video and show everyone on the internet.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Now you think I called you a liar.

Look out the window quick, there are 4 black helicopters over your house. And there is a boogie man tired of the TWU under your bed too.

Come on down to the Informational Meeting next Saturday and expose the truth of yours in person. We'll get it on video and show everyone on the internet.

You did call me a liar....

Go sit in the Truck 😛

 

[aapitbull]

I don't see the silence from the AMP drive in Tulsa as the members "listening to change from within B.S. and fear their own shadow" as you suggest....I see an intelligent membership informed on the AMP Constitution and their steering committees lack of viable experience and funding required to fully represent them...

AMP should just go "sit in the Truck"

Where do you get this stuff card drives take time they do not happen overnight, we will get the cards but it will take awhile and it is not because members believe in the TWU it is because when you start something new you have to spread the word we have not even been organizing 2 months yet.

I hope i am wrong maybe i will be but I know when a sellout is needed the TWU is the union to call, that said the CAL T/A will make it more difficult but will see.

P.S. the truck is running to cart off the dead carcuss of the TWU!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Where do you get this stuff card drives take time they do not happen overnight, we will get the cards but it will take awhile and it is not because members believe in the TWU it is because when you start something new you have to spread the word we have not even been organizing 2 months yet.

I hope i am wrong maybe i will be but I know when a sellout is needed the TWU is the union to call, that said the CAL T/A will make it more difficult but will see.

P.S. the truck is running to cart off the dead carcuss of the TWU!

So in less than 2 months the AMP has had their constitution reduced to a mere pipe dream and you want to continue to spread the word? Well OK, have fun...LOL

AMP, Go sit in the Truck 😛

 

[aapitbull]

So in less than 2 months the AMP has had their constitution reduced to a mere pipe dream and you want to continue to spread the word? Well OK, have fun...LOL

AMP, Go sit in the Truck 😛

OK feel free to believe what you want. Repeat after me The members luv the TWU The members luv the TWU The members luv the TWU it is all better now.

 

[MikeCobbAFW]

Are you with the Company or with the International? We have a pool started and I have a hunch I know the answer.O

I am curious as to what the AMP supporters see as the reaslitic timeline and path to a settlement. Here is my prediction: AMP gets vote around March/April 2011. AMP wins vote in May/June 2011. AMP hires pro negotiators next Aug 2011.

Path A: AMP demands Restore and More - company caves and gives everything back - new contract passes Fall 2011 - Yeah!!!!

Or Path B: NMB restarts negotiation clock. AMP takes hard line - puts up billboards/info pickets - no more discussions or working with management...AMP and AMR go back and forth like APA and company - get nowhere, but no impasse since clock restarted with new union. 2013 - members vote out AMP hard liners (see APA) and vote in reasonable people and get the 2010 TA in 2013 with a little inflation bump

Path C: AMR starts down the NWA road and ends up in strike/impasse....maximum bad feelings...hate discontent....resulting in either breaking union or BK....People take new jobs at AAR for 20% less but are glad they went down swinging...

What is the likely path? Would some one lke to sketch out a road to success?

 

[Duke787]

Any timeline from AMP when they are going to count the cards and have an election?

After 2+ years of negotiating the TWU came up with nothing better then what AA was GIVING the agents. I no longer think the TWU can represent us, in these new times of mechs knowing what is going on. My only fear is that AMP will sacrifice the line stations for TUL life style.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ There are no grantees in life. And change always has it's uncertainties, but what are your options?------ More of the same? :huh: